Interview: L.A. Trade Tech Graduate Alex Kirikake of Smart Alex Signs

Sean talks to Alex about his experience going through the Los Angeles Trade Tech Sign Painter's program and what motivated this young newcomer to the trade. More info: https://instagram.com/smart_alex_signs/

Transcription:

Coming to you from Starr Studios in Denison, Texas, this is Coffee with a Signpainter, a weekly podcast hosted by sign painter, Sean Starr, that consists of interviews with other sign painters and some of the customers and characters Sean comes across while running his studio. Welcome to this week's episode of Coffee with a Signpainter. I'll be talking with Alex Kirakake. He's a recent graduate from the LA TradeTech, sign painting program in Los Angeles. Mr.

Doc Guthrie is the lead on that program. And, Alex is gonna give us some input on what the class was like, how some of it works, what some of the things he learned, and he's got some other experiences he's gonna share with us as well. So if you've, ever been curious about, which I have, the, LA Trade Tech sign painters course and how it all works and what those guys learn. Alex is gonna fill you in. So let's give this a listen.

So I don't know much of anything about you. Yeah. So you'll have to you'll have to school me. Okay. So, let's see.

A little bit about me, I'm 22 years old. K. And I'm a graduate from LA Trade Tech. I started that class in February. I was 19 years old.

Is that right? Yeah. I was 19 years old, and, and I had a two year old daughter who's now five years old. Okay. And, yeah, that's, that's kind of the starting point.

Okay. You're you're in Southern California? Yep. Huntington Beach, California. Okay.

And the LA Trade Tech, that's the, that's the, basically, the only sign writing course you can take in The United States now, and that's Doc Guthrie? Yep. Okay. Yep. There's also, a new teacher there now named Carlos Aguilar, I believe is his last name.

Okay. But, yeah, he's kinda taking over the class right now. So so your your name is Alex. How do you pronounce your last name? I don't wanna butcher it.

Kurakaki. Kurakaki. Yep. Okay. Japanese.

Okay. Gotcha. Well, cool. Well, I'm glad you came on the show because, you know, I've I've talked to quite a few of the older guys who've been doing it a while, but it'd be interesting to get your perspective on, what motivated you and what it was like going through the the trade tech school and everything. So why don't we start with the motivation?

Why why did you want to do this? Got it. Yeah. Well, thanks for having me. Let's see.

So when I was about 11 years old, I started doing graffiti. K. And, all my all of my older neighbors, everyone in the neighborhood kinda, that was what they were doing. And so, everyone we're all real close, growing up. And so we all got into it, you know, and people kind of fell out of it, and I just stuck with it.

And, did that for about eight yeah. Like a good eight years. K. And, yeah. When I was 17, I had my daughter, Autumn.

And, basically, I was selling weed at the time, making money Mhmm. And, working I got a job at a pizza place when I was 18 years old. And, so that's how I was kinda supporting myself and my daughter and girlfriend at the time. And just one night, like, fast forward to, yeah, like, age I guess I was 18. My buddy, one of my graffiti friends, we're hanging out, and he just started talking to me.

He's like, hey. You know? Like, there's this class out in LA. They teach you how to hand letter and paint signs, and I had no idea what that even meant. Mhmm.

I was literally just like I just graduated high school and, wasn't really trying to go to college, but I knew I needed to do something different because, once I had my daughter, something just clicked in my head. I didn't grow up with my dad. So one thing I would always say is, you know, I don't want to be like my dad when I grow up. Right. So that was kind of motivation for me to do something good with my life.

Okay. So it wasn't until that point where my friend offered where he told me about that class. And, he's like, yeah. You know, how about we just go down to LA and we'll go check it out and see what it's about. And so I said, sure.

You know, that's fine. I'll I'll go look at it and see what they're doing. And, so we went down there, checked out the class, met doc, kind of walked around the class and saw what everyone's doing. And all I can really remember from that day is seeing the semester. It's a four semester course k.

Over the two years. So, I remember the semester just doing basic, Gothic charts. Thank you. It's my girlfriend bringing me coffee. Hello.

So I just remember them doing the basic gothic charts, with, like, water based tempera paint on paper. Okay. And, that's so I started telling everybody, yeah. I'm gonna start going to school for sign sign painting. And everyone's like, what's that?

And I couldn't even tell them anything except window splash. That's all that could pop up in my head. I'm gonna start painting people's windows, I guess. And Okay. I had no I had no idea.

But That there was all this other stuff you could get into, Yeah. So I just knew it was hand lettering and, yeah. I just didn't know really where that could take me, you know, but I was interested definitely. I saw what they're doing and I was like thought to myself, I could do this. So I signed up, and, my buddy and I were supposed to go together, like, sign up together and start taking it.

You know, we're both from Orange County. Mhmm. And, when, like, the day class started or something or enrollment, whatever, he didn't get in for whatever reason. And I did. So I showed up on the day, just totally, like, unfamiliar with the area kinda.

Not completely, but, And how far is that school from where you live? With no traffic, it's about forty forty five minutes. Okay. So, yeah. And so a a little bit about the classes, they start at 7AM, Tuesday through Friday, and they get out at 12:40PM.

And, basically, you're hands on. Just, it's yeah. It's all hands on. Basically, the whole five and five and a half hours that you're there. So, yeah, if you want me to walk you through, basically Yeah.

Just tell us tell us what a typical day was like. That'd be that'd be interesting. Okay. So, yeah, I mean, semester, you basically just, you learn letter. I don't know, like, the right terminology, but letter forms.

There you go. You go in and alphabet well, on the day of class, and I still have my my sign, my little drawing that I did. day of class, dot kinda tells you, you know, what what a good sign looks like and how to make a good sign basically roughly and, sums it up basically with emphasis and contrast and things like that, you know, big and small and light and dark, but so he has us do a little drawing on the day and, he gives you the copy which for mine was Kevin's tattoo parlor. And he has you draw it out and gives you, like, thirty minutes or something Okay. Or now.

And, and then he's and then after that's over, you know, he, you kinda hold up your little paper drawing that you're so proud of and think you did a good job, and he just nitpicks the out of it and tells you how bad it sucks and what's wrong with it. And, but, yeah, I kept mine. So it's it's really funny looking at it because just everything, the words, like word spacing and letter spacing and everything is just all messed up. But sure. The semester is nothing, you just you learn how to draw the letters completely, no like rulers or anything, you know, you're drawing straight lines with a pencil and, I mean you have your guidelines obviously but, you're making measurements off of a chart and, that's like better, like, proper letters, I guess.

K. And, you're measuring off the chart and going back to your paper and drawing all these letters and the whole alphabet. And, once you've done that however many times and have learned what a good letter looks like and the size of it, you know, there's like wide letters, narrow letters, and normal letters and yeah. Once you do that, then that's when you actually start picking up a brush and you learn how to use the, tempera paint. And, yeah.

So that's basically semester. You don't touch one shot. You don't use a quill, maul stick, or anything like that. You just draw. Yep.

You just draw and and then by the end of the semester, you do your paper sign all with tempera paint, one color, maybe maybe one to three colors now. I don't know. But, just simple. Just the basics. You know?

And if you can stick it out through that, that's that's the toughest semester that a lot of people stay because, it's boring. You it's a lot of repetition and and Doc's an a hole. You know? So no. But I love the guy.

But That that's a requirement to teach anybody anything. Yeah. So he he's gotta get rid of the people who, you know, aren't fit to last, I guess. You know? Yeah.

So if you stick through that, next semester's semester, and that's where you pick up the, like quills and one shot and you start practicing with that. Everybody in the class learns to paint and letter with a mall stick. Okay. It's required. Whether you want to do that on your own after school or whatever, you don't have to, you know, but during class, you have to use a mall stick.

Okay. So, that's how I learned and I I use it about, about 50% at least of the time I'm painting, you know, depending on what I'm what I'm working on. Mhmm. Because you can't always use a mahl stick. Sure.

But, it definitely helps and there's tricks to using one. So, yeah that's basically semester. You're just kind of learning the brush and feeling it. And semester is all all glass. You learn how to paint exterior glass reverse.

semester, you also learn gold leaf. And, so that carries over into the You start doing gold leaf on glass. K. And, Is it all water gilding? Nope.

Surface gilding in the semester. Okay. But, and so or matte gilding, you know, as some people might know it as. Mhmm. But, and then so yeah.

It's just, you learn blending techniques, like convex lettering, you know, some of the specialty stuff. That's also in the semester of the convex. You learn some cool things you can do. And, four semesters basically all like specialty tricks like wood graining, faux, like aged, signs, you know, for aging. You learn water gilding in the semester.

Yeah. I mean, I'm sure there's more, you know, that trade tech listeners might be hearing right now, like, why aren't you naming this? Right. Sure. But but that's kind of a sum of it.

And every so it's four days a week. And, two of the days out of the week, Wednesday and Friday, you have a layout class, which is about half of the day. And, all that all that you're focusing on is layout. So doc will be in lecture room, and it's only for and semester. K.

And they all meet in the lecture room. And, basically, doc will go on the chalkboard, and he'll write down a size of the sign blank and, the copy. And everybody will most mostly oh, yeah. What I forgot to mention too is you learn how to cut vinyl and stuff while you're in the semester or not. Heresy.

And, you have to do it, you know? No. That that it's good it's good to have a full well rounded knowledge of, you know, sign making. You know, I a lot of us dig on, you know, vinyl, but a lot of us have done lots of it over the years as well. So you got all sorts of noises going on over there.

Yes. Sorry about that. Oh, can you hear that beeping? Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Someone's alarmed. That's Southern California. What do you expect? Yeah. Okay.

So with with what you got taught there, like, what what process are you using? Like, let's say, you know, Joe from the tattoo shop calls you and says, I I want a a board painted above my door, and I want lettering in my window. Like, where do you start? Me personally, thing I do when someone tells me what they want, I I use a pencil and paper and sketch something out. Mhmm.

And, I do both. I have a plotter and I have, sign lab, which is software. Mhmm. And, and I also draw and and that's kind of one of the things I pride myself on, you know, being a sign painter is that I can draw and that I'm not fully, like, I'm not just limited to computer, you know, like, I I can do lettering and and I don't need the computer, but, it mostly depends on what kind of business I'm doing the sign for. Like a lot of the tattoo guys, they like a lot of, like, custom lettering and cool stuff that, you won't you don't really find on the computer, like, fonts.

Right. Right. So any so anytime I'm doing anything for, like, a tattoo shop, that's always just I always draw it no matter what. Mhmm. And, it's just a different look, and you can do a lot more when you draw.

Yeah. Me personally. But you know if I'm doing like let's see like you know just like the wall sign or something and they want some just simple like block lettering I'm gonna plot that out on my computer you know I'll come up with a design on my software and type it out and make sure you know I know all the rules well most of them you know letter spacing and stuff and correct the things that are wrong when you just type something out on a computer Right. And, and plot it out, you know, and do the normal steps and and that's that's like a time that I would use my software. Yeah.

And, you know, that's a it's an interesting thing to me about a lot of the younger guys getting into it is I've come across quite a few guys that, have the mindset, that they need to do absolutely everything by hand, and you should learn how to do everything by hand, but there are times where, like what you're saying, if somebody says, I want the word no parking, you know, 18 inches tall on this fence. Yeah. You know, I it it's, it's much more practical to just, you know, lay that out in the software, blast out a pattern, get it done, and then move on to some custom window job or some ornate leaf job that you're working on that's all handwork, then, you know, trying to, you know, master, I'm going to make these 18 inch block letters, you know, all by hand and and take three days to do something that could take an afternoon. Yeah. Exactly.

I mean, the point is, you know, we're trying to make money and make a living while, yes, still keeping the the art form of it. But, I mean, we're business people. You know? We gotta I have to pay bills, you know, and I'm not trying to do it by hand just to say that I do everything by hand. Yeah.

And that's that's a good point too. Is that something that they go over in the class, is some of the business aspect of it? Yeah. In the semester, you're also taught, yeah, businesses, licensing, pricing. Yeah.

That that's really valuable. You know, a lot of the the guys that I'm talking about that are, you know, stubbornly sticking to, No, I just want to do all of this by hand. It's not a business for them. They're not supporting anyone with it. They're just, you know, tinkering on the weekends or something.

But, you know, you also have to look at the practical side of production. And you have to pick your battles. You know, there are some things that, you know, from start to finish, you know, I don't want to involve anything but full handwork when I work on it because of what the piece is and what I'm trying to make it look like. But, you know, like I said, if somebody wants the words no parking in block letters on their fence, I'm going to be blasting that pattern out and, you know, working it out. I'm not trying to create a piece of artwork with the word no parking.

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So yeah. I noticed a lot of, like, I mean, I'm I'm obviously a younger guy.

That's not what I was gonna say. But, like, just like people who are interested in it, but, like, don't necessarily know too much. But I noticed that a lot of people like all the, artistic things that you can do to the lettering, like the double shapes and Mhmm. Different, like, just, you know, the colorful, like, artsy, side of it, which is cool. I love it too, but I don't get to do a lot of it unless it's for my personal use because not too many people will pay for the time that all that stuff takes.

Yep. Exactly. But, you know, that's I I think, a lot of us, what we've done over the years is, you know, we'll we'll pick certain jobs where the customer has given us some creative freedom and, you know, we'll end up blowing way more time on it than we're getting paid for. But, you know, sometimes you've got to do that to keep your sanity. Yeah.

And speaking of that, it just reminded me of, because I've been listening to a few, the podcast more often lately. K. And just, so I was listening to the one with John Lennon right now. Uh-huh. And you guys were talking about, well, you were talking about how you were gonna surprise the candy shop lady with the apron, something like that.

Yeah. And, yeah, just it kind of reminded me of this story that well, not a story, but, something that was told to me by an older sign painter. And, because he this guy, his name's, Bob Thompson, I believe. Mhmm. And, his business is Team Thompson.

He's out in Lake Havasu area. He's been doing it for, like, over forty years. Okay. And, actually, I got a story about this too, if you don't mind. Oh, yeah.

Bring it on. It's about how I met this guy. So, one night, you know, it's about 09:30PM. I'm driving home from Montclair on the freeway, which is about, like, an hour away from my house. And so, it's 09:30 at night.

I'm driving on the freeway, and I see, like, this red Toyota Tacoma or something. You know? And and I see it has lettering all over it on the tailgate, on the sides. And, I'm a few cars behind him, but I can tell just by the layout that it's hand painted. Okay.

That's just that's one of the things too about being hand painted is or being assigned painters are are layouts. You know, they stand out, from graphic designers or final guys. Right. But, so I could tell it was hand painted, and I'm kinda speeding up so I can get right next to this guy. And, finally, I'm, like, I'm up on his side, you know, in the next lane over, and I'm looking over at him and like a stalker.

Yeah. He doesn't see me, you know, and it's it's late. He's an he's an older guy. He's gotta be he's in his sixties. And so I start honking my horn, and this is probably dumb because we're on the freeway and driving, like, you know, 70 miles per hour or something.

And I'm honking, and, he kinda looked over at me. And I waved, you know, Adam, and, he kinda just kept driving. And I'm like, alright. So I got behind this guy because I really wanted to talk to him. I saw on his truck it said Lake Havasu, and his license plate said, Nevada or Arizona, whichever that is.

And, I'm like, alright. This guy's out of town, you know. Like, I just wanna talk to this guy. I'm never gonna run into him again. Mhmm.

So I started, like, kinda following him for a little bit. And, and he's gotta know I'm following him because I was just honking at him and now I'm behind him. He's thinking how much he hates LA at this moment. Yeah. Exactly.

And, you know, I'm I I have two cars. I have my Jeep, and then I have my 1960 Chevy truck. And and my truck's all lettered up, but my Jeep is just my normal car. You know? And, so I'm in my Jeep.

So he doesn't know who I am or that I also paint signs. And, so he keeps going and I'm like, alright. You know, if he goes too far, I'm I'm I gotta get off on my exit, you know, because I'm going home. But, he ended up getting off on there was two exits I could've got off on, and, he got off on the one. So I I got off with them.

So we're on the off ramp, and I'm still doing the same thing, honking at him, you know, trying to get his attention. And this time, he waves at me, but I'm trying to get him to roll his windows down or anything. Doesn't do it. So we're going. We're driving down Beach Boulevard now.

So I'm a couple cities away from, where I need to go my house and same thing. I'm just I'm creeping him out. You know? I know I'm freaking him out. Driving right next to him.

He's speeding up. I'm speeding up. He's we're driving, like, 40 miles per hour now on, like, a 50 mile per hour street when there's no traffic. You know? Everyone all the cars are going around both of us because I we're blocking up two lanes, basically.

I and, anyways, same thing. You know? I'm like, if he goes too far, I I gotta turn on my street. And all of a sudden, he gets in the left hand turn lane, like, real quick. You know what?

And so it's a red light in the left hand turn lane, and it's a green light to go straight. And we're driving straight. He goes left hand turn lane. I I cut over, you know, two lanes to get in the left hand turn lane. So I'm right behind him again.

And, he pulls into a parking lot. It's a liquor store, so it's all lit up. And, he pulled in. I pulled in right after him, like, two lane two spaces over, you know, and parked. You're lucky the guy didn't shoot you or something.

He he was probably thinking I was gonna do that to him. Uh-huh. So he he gets out of his car with his little big gold cup and, starts walking to the liquor store. Doesn't even acknowledge me or anything. And I got out of my car, and I was like, hey.

And the thing I said, I'm a sign painter too, you know, I wanna talk to you. And so he's like, he kinda like stopped and okay. And so, it's about like 10:00 right now, like, by the time that we're talking. I introduced myself, you know, my name is Alex and I'm a sign painter and I noticed your truck and I really wanted to talk to you. And so, I he told me, he's like, yeah, you know, I I was creeped out.

I didn't know what you were gonna do. I saw that you were following me. So he's like, I pulled over into a spot with a lot of lights. And, he's like, but I'm glad that, you know, you are who you are and introduce yourself and And not a serial killer. Yeah.

And so, he wasn't sure if I was gonna mug him. That's what he told me. And, but anyways, so we're talking, and, we ended up talking for about three hours that night till 01:30AM in the morning just outside, outside of the liquor store just talking about signs. And he was just so willing to share any and all information that he could. He kept trying to tell me things.

And, oh, this is so important. You need to know this. Oh, this is so important. You need to know this. And I'm trying to take it all in.

And but, it was awesome. I loved it. Yeah. He specializes in in boats. That's that's all he paints now.

You know, over forty years, that's all he does now is boat lettering. Uh-huh. But, so anyways, how I even started talking about that guy was, he's he's painted a few few coffins and stuff for funerals and things like that, and he's done a lot of race cars. So can race car drivers like caskets and things like that. And, one of the things he was telling me is that, you know, when the widow comes up to him and ask him to do something like that, he can't give her a bill, you know, at, like Right.

For doing stuff like that. So he does he does them for free, you know, when they come up. Awesome. And, that's kinda his way of giving back a little bit. And, and one thing that he was telling me too, which I which I find is true, is that, when you're doing things like that for free and you're not getting paid, and you wanna make it look nice, you know, it it actually, you actually tend to put more time into making something look nice when you're not getting paid for it because when you Then it's art.

Yeah. When you're getting paid for something, you're like, I gotta get it done in this many hours or I'm gonna start losing money. Mhmm. And so, when you don't have that over your head, you know, and you just wanna make something look nice, yeah. I mean, it shows.

Yeah. Well, that's cool. That's cool that he does that. Yeah. Yeah.

We I think everybody's got certain things that that they do just to hook people up. I think a lot of us keep it private because you don't want to get just totally overwhelmed with it, but you know, that's really cool that he does that, though. So he does, like, lettering and stuff on the caskets of race car drivers when they die? I mean, not just specifically race car drivers, but that's one of the ones that he was telling me about. He was doing gold leaf on it and just he went all out on it, and it was all for free.

That's very cool. Yeah. He yeah. It just makes him feel good. Very cool.

So what what is your setup like? I see some stuff in the background. Yeah. You working out of your garage? Yep.

Yep. I work out of my garage. Milk that as long as you can. I've told so many young guys, do not go out and get shop rent and all this other stuff. And, you know, every time you hit a slow period, you're gonna hate yourself.

There ain't nothing wrong with painting in the garage. Guys have been doing it for hundreds of years. Paint in your garage. Oh, I love it. It's it's it's always been my spot.

Even when I was, you know, like, 19 years old living at my mom's house, and and she uses the garage as a normal person does for storage. Mhmm. And, you know, I was making it work there. But now I've got my own place, with my boyfriend and, and our, daughters. And, yeah, my whole garage is just dedicated to my sign shop, quote unquote.

Hey. Sign shop's a sign shop. It don't matter if it's in your garage or in some fancy building. But, yeah, it's perfect. You know, I got my easel and the electro pounce and plotter and everything I need, my cutting table and Very cool.

Just walk downstairs. That's the hard part though sometimes, you know, since it is connected to my house. Yeah. Like, sometimes I'm just I'll be upstairs and feeling lazy, like, I know I gotta go down there, but, I'm pretty comfortable right now up here. Yeah.

No. It's it's, it's a two edged sword, you know? Because you can get, you can get really unmotivated, especially if the weather's crummy or if the weather's nice because then you're like, maybe I'll just take off for the afternoon. No one will know. Yeah.

It's funny because, right before, like, we just reached each other through Skype, I was taking off my jacket. I just want I just wanted to kinda be somewhat prepared, you know, sitting down and all that stuff. But I was taking off my jacket because it's a little bit warm. And then I was like, wait. I can't tell that to someone who lives in Texas, you know, because we're we've got, like, 70 degree weather night right now, like, 72, you know, and it's a perfect day.

But, we That's actually we we've had these crazy storms this last, like, two weeks been thunderstorms nonstop. So today was actually up until around noon was in the fifties. But, yeah, that's not normal. Yeah. So, yeah, anytime you tell someone if you're from Southern California and you tell someone from out of state that it's hot or it's cold, they're gonna bash you.

You know? You don't know what hot is like and you don't know what cold is like. And it it's true. The weather out here is spoiling to say the least. I I lived in, Southern California.

That's actually where I met my wife, but it was up in Big Bear, which that's a whole different climate up there because it's 10,000 feet up and it snows like crazy. I guess they just got snow a couple days ago. I was looking at one of my friends' feeds and I was like, ugh, snow in May. No thanks. So, so what's your setup like when you go to do work?

Do you have, like, a work van or something? Or Yeah. I've got I've got my truck. Okay. So my you know, I've got an eight foot long bed in for my truck, and, I've got all my signs on it and everything.

And, it's kind of I've I've gotten some work from it, you know, from people seeing it. And Sure. In my outfit, if you can kinda see, you know, I always got paint all over myself. Yeah. It's kinda just I know I'm gonna paint, so I wear my painted clothes.

And then when I'm done working, I end up just walking around like this all day anyways. Right. So it's kinda my getup. So so the trade tech school is two years long? Yeah.

It's a two year two years long and, And what's that cost? Well, it cost I believe now it's probably around $500 a semester. And Oh, really? So so $2 and you've got it under your belt? Yeah.

It's worth it. Definitely. That's crazy good. Anybody, and you know, they they have, like, fee waivers and stuff too, where if you're not making a lot of money, they'll actually pay for you to to go to the class. They'll pay for your class.

They won't pay you. Well, I mean, you can get that, but, they'll pay for your class, and all you need to do is show up. So there's assistance available too? Yeah. Yeah.

So it's great. So how many people were in your class? It's it's definitely, crowded right now. In my class, I mean, starting the semester is always the most crowded, you know, because everybody wants to get in it. Everybody wants to learn.

Right. And people start dropping out immediately in the semester and and then even when the semester's over, you know, they don't come back the next semester. They're like, Like, how many people do you estimate started started with you in the semester and stuck it out through the end? Alright. So there's probably at least, like, there's probably, about 25 to 30 people who start in the semester.

And by the graduating semester, you got about six people left. Really? Yeah. Yeah. And, Got three must be hard.

And, yeah. You know, he he's got a bunch of stories. You you'd have to hear it from him because I mean, I'm gonna try to tell one of them, but, you know, he he that he has stories about, however many years ago when, you know, sign painting wasn't very popular and, they wanted to keep that class alive, they would actually go out on the street and find homeless people and and try to get them to to enroll in the class just to keep it going. Yeah. That class is actually the either the or oldest class on that campus at LA Trade Tech.

It's been there since, the twenties, I believe. Wow. Very good. And it and it's the only one in the country now, like, actual school. Yeah.

So so what's the dynamic like like with you and the the guys that you graduated with? I mean, are you guys pretty, like, is there like a camaraderie there? Or is it like everybody just went their own way and just like, I'll catch you later. I'm gonna go paint signs. How how does that go?

I personally feel like there is a camaraderie, you know? Like, we depending on who it I I'm close with, like, a handful of, trade tech graduates that I went to school with Mhmm. That are actually still doing it because even out of the six people that you might graduate with, only one of them is probably actually gonna do it as a career, if that. So, so the people who have stuck it out, I I I stay pretty close with. Cool.

Yeah. So and and and, anybody because I get a lot of people, coming to me and asking for me to teach them, you know, like, do you do classes and workshops? And I don't. And, and I don't plan to anytime soon at all, at least. Right.

And, but I always recommend going to TradeTech. Like, if you because it's not so easy to learn from a journeyman sign painter anymore. They're just not around. Yeah. So, that's that's the next best thing.

I mean, it is the best thing. You learn from a journeyman sign painter, and, and I mean, you learn all the rules. It's like people don't really understand, like, that there are rules to it. Yeah. It there's a lot of us.

You know, I grew up in South Texas, and there was absolutely nothing available. And the only way I learned was working with my dad. And, a lot of what I learned over the years was either trial and error, or some dude would come into town and work with us for a couple of months who's like an alcoholic or whatever, and you'd pick up stuff real quick because you knew he wasn't sticking around. So, it's interesting to me that, you know, that you've had the opportunity to like learn in stages, you know. I know Chris, DeBell, his dad taught one of those, trade schools in Australia.

And so, you know, those of you who've been able to, you know, go through that process, I find that really interesting. My process was basically slave labor. You know, I've told this story before. You know, my my dad had us, you know, doing, you know, layouts and prep work and all of that for three solid years before I ever was allowed to touch paint at all. It's so frustrating.

So that that's that's cool. So, to keep the tradition going, what's a young dude like you listen to? Actually, I listen to a lot of, like, classic rock, and I have my phases. This is my phase right now. Mhmm.

It's mostly because of my girlfriend and, because of her dad. Yeah. He he was on to the classic rock, so that's what I listen to a lot of now, like, the Doors and Zeppelin and, but I also it depends mostly on what kind of mood I'm in or or what I'm gonna go do. You know, like, if I'm waking up real early to do a job, I like to listen to, like, some classic rock or something mellow, you know? Mhmm.

I I used to listen to a lot of punk rock and go to all the shows and stuff like that, and I still do occasionally. And that music always, you know, will amp me up. So if I'm trying to get, like, pumped up for something, I'll I'll turn that on, and and I, that's what, that's what gets me going sometimes. Okay. Cool.

Alright. Well, any, any embarrassing things happen to you so far now that you've tried to go out and do your own thing? Yeah. I'm sure a ton of embarrassing things, have happened, but I'm trying to think about it now. I don't know.

Oh, yeah. My girlfriend just popped in right now right at me, and she just she just heard me say that, and she's reminded me of a story. So, that's a good one. I was out in LA, working one time, and I'm working inside of, like, what's to be a skate shop. And so I'm doing this huge sign for them.

It's, well, it's like I I don't even remember the dimensions on it 10 feet by something and so I'm working on it there and I'm painting and I have like a a court or, or something like or however much it was of the one shot. And, it's it's yellow. And, I'm sitting down painting, you know, crisscross. And, I knocked the yellow paint over somehow, and it spilled all over my I don't even know how it got on my shirt and my pants and my shoes, but I was completely just drenched in yellow one shot, and I don't have any spare clothes. I'm in Los Angeles, you know, not right next to my house.

And, I went to my car because I was like, I need to do something right now. And it was super embarrassing because I got the guys right there, you know, like, I just Mhmm. Stretched the paint all over myself. And, luckily, it was a skate shop, you know, so they're pretty cool. You know?

They don't really care. Whereas if it had been a dentist office, they might have been mad. Shoot you or something. Yeah. But, which I have a story about that one too.

But, so I walked to my car and all I have in my car is a towel. So I took my shirt off and I've it's it's bled through my shirt. You know, I got this huge yellow stain on my skin. And, I took off my I'm I'm pretty it's get one of my boxers took off my pants. I I totally undressed.

You know, I'm out in LA too, so I don't really care because there's a lot of weirdos out there. Yeah. Yeah. You get away with anything. So, I'm just undressed.

I put my towel on me, and I, you know, I try to wipe off and and I come back. I'm pretty sure I got my shoes back on, but no socks. So I got my shoes and nothing else but a towel on me. And I'm walking back to the skate shop because I gotta go finish this sign. And so I'm walking down the street because I didn't park right in front of the shop.

And, you know, I'm walking back, you know, and and all these people are commenting to me like, hey. What's up, man? You know? And whatever they're saying and, like, joking around with me, you know, like, looks like you're, like, having a good one or something like that. And I'm just kinda smiling.

You know? And, because I was I wasn't even mad at all. You know? It was just funny to me. I knew it was gonna be a story to tell.

Sure. And, but, yeah, I went back and and the guy actually they they all started laughing at me. It's just hilarious, you know, how I came back. And, the guy actually had some, like, basketball shorts. And, and right next to the skate shop was a, like, a t shirt shop.

So he gave me a t shirt and some basketball shorts. So Did you spill paint all over his floor or anything or just Yeah. But it yeah. But it was, like, tile or, like, like, it was, like, tile floor or something. So it was really easy to clean.

They they all got towels and helped me out. And and they weren't mad about it, so that was the best part. Nice. But, that was pretty embarrassing. Yeah.

But, yeah. I've got another story too, not so embarrassing, but it's about, this guy who didn't wanna pay me basically one time, who actually used to be my old boss at the pizza place I used to work at. Oh, even worse. And, so yeah, I worked at, Pizza Place. And, so basically, right when I started, going to Trade Tech, you know, you don't learn really how to, like, go out and make a living in the semester.

But, I started in February. And, when December came, every December, Doc will bring in, like, a guest window splash artist, or he'll do it himself. And, so we had, the window goddess who's like a local out here. Yeah. She came in and did a demo for us and, and you know, I I knew basic basic gothic lettering and, she taught us how to do window splash.

So, yeah, My semester, that's what I started doing. I started doing window splash, and, that's kinda how I was making a little bit of money. Like, I was doing it dirt cheap, you know, but I was trying to get the experience more than the money, but also I didn't know how to price at all. Mhmm. So I'm doing these windows for, like, $50.60 bucks, and I'm doing, like, eight windows or something like that.

Something huge, you know, like, time ever, 50% off, like, across all their windows. But and so I was working at a pizza place while I was going to school. And, and they had an old window splash on their on their windows that was there for thirty years or something. And, so I told them, hey, you know, I'll do it for you guys. And I don't even remember what I what price I did it for, but, you know, I just named my pricing then.

So it was not worth, it in payment or whatever, but I did it. And and so, yeah, they loved it. You know, it was all good. They they ended up moving locations, like, a year or two later. And by this time, I'm already a full time sign painter, and, my prices have gone up and everything.

And so, they call me back, you know, do our window, and we agreed on a price. And I'm doing it, and I'm halfway through. I'm I'm three quarters of the way through. I'm almost done. And, he comes out, and he goes, where's the big pizza?

And, he's this Korean guy, so his English isn't that good. Mhmm. And, where's the where's the pizza? And, what pizza? You know, you didn't tell me you wanted a pizza, and I'm almost done.

And, oh, no. I want a pizza. I want a pizza. Blah blah. I'm not gonna pay you until there's a pizza on there.

And there's no room for a pizza. I took up the window space, you know, with whatever I was doing. Right. And, no. No.

I'm not gonna pay you. He walks back inside, and there's customers in there and everything, you know? And I I can't I went in there. It it pissed me off for sure. And, I went in there, and I wasn't making a scene, but I made sure that the customers could hear what was going on.

And I I told them, so you're not gonna pay me for what, For all, like, for what I just did right now. You know? I'm almost done. And, I wanted it to be clear to everybody, you know, because I I knew this was gonna escalate. I knew who he was.

He used to be my boss. So, yeah. He no. I'm not gonna pay you. And I was like, at all?

Like, not even for what I just did? No. No. Nothing. And so Get out the razor blade.

Oh, that's exactly what I did. So I told him, alright. And got out the razor blade and just went did, like, how just scrapes through it. I didn't remove the whole thing, you know, I just ruined it. And, you could still you could still read what it said, but you could tell that it was damaged, like Mhmm.

Oh, he came out so pissed, like, yelling at me. I couldn't even understand him, but I knew he was mad. And, so anyways, he's he I'm calling the cops. I'm calling the cops. And I said, sure.

You know? Like, you're not whatever. You know? Called the cops. Cops came.

And when the cops came, he was so, like, the cops were just like, okay. You hold on. Let's talk to this guy. And so they talked to me, and I told him, you know, we agreed on a price. We agreed on what I was doing.

Last minute, he wants to add something. I told him it's gonna cost more. He didn't wanna pay more. Turns out he didn't wanna pay me at all. And so I I I scraped it up.

He's not gonna get a free sign, and I'm not gonna remove the whole thing because that costs money too. Mhmm. So I just left it as is, you know, and the cops kinda saw where I was coming from. And and they told him, yeah, you know, you didn't pay him. So, and he didn't he didn't break the window, you know?

So if you wanna get it removed, you're gonna have to pay to get it removed. But, he's not getting paid for anything, so he's not in the wrong here. Mhmm. And, I got to walk away. And, and I and I was mad.

You know? I just put in all my hours and my paint, and I didn't get paid. But, he was left there with that crappy ruined sign. And, I would drive by it, and he left it there for couple few weeks, you know, and I'm like it just made me mad because you could still read that it said pizza really big. So it was still doing its job, kinda.

Right. And and I'm like, oh, man. You know, like, I should go scrape it some more. And, but I didn't. And it turns out, yeah, a few weeks later, he ended up calling me back.

He apologized, and, he had me finish it up, and he he paid me the remainder or what it cost. You know? There was no additional charges. Everybody started telling me, oh, you should've doubled it and all this stuff. But it was almost done.

I patched up my scrapes and, got my money and Well, you made peace with the guy. It's all good. Yeah. And, I mean, that that was my favorite pizza spot ever, like, in the whole city, you know. Like, I love that place.

So, I didn't I wasn't I was on my strike, you know. I wasn't getting pizza from there for a while. But Right. Once we made peace, I went back and, I caved. Good deal.

Good deal. Well, thanks for coming on the show and explaining the, the trade tech thing. Yeah. I think there's a lot of people curious about that. I I do know from talking to a couple of people, it sounds like it's really hard to get in at this point.

I'm sure it is. Yeah. Because like I said, it's it's really crowded, and, it's it's definitely blowing up. You know? People are taking more of an interest to sign painting.

Not that I come from twenty years ago and have seen the whole process, you know? But just from where I started out four years ago, Yeah. I've seen it. It's already it's getting more, whatever the word is. You know?

Yeah. It's really mushroomed, you know. I think the, the sign painter movie, I think that's still having an effect, you know, of people that are still just coming across it now and getting interested and getting, you know, motivated and stuff. Yeah. Well, it'd be interesting to see where it goes.

Yeah. Cool. Alright. Well, thanks for coming on and, keep painting. I'm I follow you on Instagram, so I'll I'll keep an eye on you.

Cool. Thanks very much for having me. If I think you're screwing up, I'll put a comment on there or something. Okay. Alright.

Alright, man. Alright. We'll talk to you later. Thanks very much. Thanks, Alex.

Bye. Alright. Thanks for coming on, Alex. That was, that was kinda cool to be able to see, see your perspective on it as a as somebody new coming into it who went through the whole process with the trade school. I appreciate that and appreciate all of you listening.

We're still moving ahead. I get emails and comments every week on the podcast from new listeners, people enjoying it. And, I'm glad you are. Trying to, trying to constantly improve and give you guys something good to listen to and, I also want to thank everybody who's been ordering the sign painters blend coffee from full city rooster. Keep seeing pictures on our social media of people who are enjoying the coffee and that's a good thing.

We really, wanna support our sponsor with, Full City Rooster. They've been really good to us for from the beginning of the show and, just wanna thank everybody for the support and for listening and, I guess I also wanna thank people for being committed to keeping sign painting alive and it's really exciting to see this, this next crop of people coming on board and they're excited about it for the right reasons and they're committing for the right reasons and kinda gives us old guys hope that it'll it'll continue on. So cool stuff. Alright. Well, we will see you guys next week and thanks for tuning in.

Today's episode of Coffee with a SoundPainter is brought to you by Full City Rooster Coffee Roasters in Dallas, Texas, roasting distinctive coffees from around the world. Sean drinks Full City Rooster coffee every day in the studio. You can order their coffee online at fullcityrooster.com. Thanks for listening to Coffee with a SignPainter, hosted by Sean Starr. You can find all sorts of info about the show and sign painting, including previous episodes at our website.

Sean Starr, seanstarr.com.