Interview: Los Angeles Creative Director Mathew Foster

Sean and Mathew discuss Mathew's history as a designer while working for the behemoth ad agency Wieden+Kennedy, his role as co-founder of Portland's Official MFG Co., their shared passion for motorcycles and daily life in crazy Los Angeles. More info on Mathew: ⁠http://www.mathewfoster.com/⁠ and ⁠http://radicalco-op.com/

Transcription:

Coming to you from Starr Studios in Denison, Texas, this is Coffee with a Signpainter, a weekly podcast hosted by sign painter, Sean Starr, that consists of interviews with other sign painters and some of the customers and characters Sean comes across while running his studio. Today, we get to talk to Matthew Foster, which is an old friend of mine. Matthew is a heavyweight in the world of design and branding. He used to work, for the humongous ad agency, Widen Kennedy, which is a worldwide agency with huge clients. After that, he went and was one of the co founders of the official manufacturing company in Portland.

Now, he's in LA. He's been down there for a few years and he's got a set up down there, an agency, called Radical Coop. I'm going to talk to him today. Matthew is one of the people that got me involved in working on some of the gap projects that we worked on a few years back. You'll recognize some of his work if you go online and look him up.

It's matthewfoster.com. Matthew with one t. We talk about a lot of different things, including dealing with the issues that come with working with large scale clients, motorcycles, which we both have a passion for, and just, LA and a lot of the different weird issues that come with living in any big city, not just LA. So let's go ahead and talk to Matthew and, see what he's thinking. I tried I got this microphone, but it is I think it was like a $12 Amazon USB microphone, and it's, like, not working at all.

Okay. So, just gonna have to roll with the, this internal mic on this thing. Okay. It doesn't sound that bad. I can see the little meter and stuff, and it's looking alright.

So Oh, okay. Cool. We should be good. Awesome. Alright.

So how's it been going, man? I haven't talked to you in a while. I know. Yeah. It's been a it's been a few weeks or months.

It's been going really good. I think, I feel like I'm having that same feeling with everybody I talk to. I'm like, hey. We haven't talked for months. Yeah.

And that just seems to be a general a general thing. But, no. It's been going really good. Like, got I feel like we got a path path to trot down here for a little while. So Good deal.

I can I can see your apartment in the background? That's a pretty great looking place with that staircase. Yeah. I know. That's pretty good.

We've got a it's, you know, decent sized little room, and it works for us now. We're we're, we're in downtown, you know, so it's it's downtown's been wearing on us. We're loving LA, but, like, downtown is starting to get a little old. Yeah. We're ready we're ready for a yard and a citrus tree and a garage, again.

Highland Park or something? Totally. Yeah. Highland Park or Eagle Rock or something like that. It's on it's on the horizon, I hope.

So Yeah. Cool. I I really liked Pasadena when I was down there. Yeah. Pasadena is really cool, but it is really spendy.

Is it? Yeah. Yeah. So we're I mean, everything around here is nuts, but, we're we're we're good. We've got a little sanctuary.

Our place is like it's kind of in the middle of craziness all around us. Okay. But our house is a nice little sanctuary and quiet, and we can Cool. We can retreat. Right on.

So what have you been working on? Well, one of the big things was, like, getting out of the house, actually. That's been, a big deal, as I'm sure sure you you found as well with, like, having a separate workspace from a living space. Yeah. When we moved down here to LA, we I just was working out of the apartment for the two years, and, I hadn't done that for a while, so so used to having an office and a space and room to move and all that.

That was a little bit of a challenge, but now finally I found a place just not too far from us, just five minutes away across the river in Boyle Heights that I'm sharing with some really great great guys that I met that are fabricator, woodworker, sort of concept builder kind of dudes. Okay. I've got a little clean room aside from there, sort of like metal shop, wood shop area. That's been really great to just like that happened in, like, late November, early December last year. Okay.

Cool. Just just getting just getting set up in there. So that was kind of, a big a big thing. And, just getting out of the house and having a proper work space is a huge deal. Yeah.

I've done both back and over the years and I think I've finally settled on I like going to a place to work. Yep. It makes me feel less like a derelict. Yeah. Totally.

Because there's too many days when you work from home that if it's like bad weather, you're like still in your pajamas, which sounds real romantic for people that have to go to a cubicle, but it ain't that great. No. It's not. It's like it's kind of fun for a little bit, but then after a little while, you realize like, when you're at home, you just wanna be at home. Yeah.

And and, like, for me, like, I wanna go to work, and when I want I wanna focus, and then when I'm done, I wanna clock out. And, you know, it's always everything's always turned in the background, but it's nice to, like, leave it there and then come back to the morning. It's That's for me the biggest thing is I like to compartmentalize, like, you know, when I'm in work as a own, I just want to work and get stuff done, and when I'm at home, I just want to relax. And Mhmm. It's nice to split it all up.

Yeah. I think that that's been a big I feel a big part of like the maturing process in my working life is like balancing balancing not working with working is a big deal. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay.

So I'm gonna ask you, just a little background. Matthew and I have known each other for several years now, and the time that we met and worked together was for the Gap. That's when I got to know you. So, that being said, there's a lot of times over the last, gosh, what year was that when we started all that gap stuff? Was it 2010 or '11, maybe?

February. Maybe Maybe 2010 or maybe Probably '2 Yeah. Because it's it ended up spanning over, you know, like six, seven seven months, I think. Yeah. Yeah.

I think, oh gosh, probably no later, like early two thousand eleven at the latest. Okay. So, a couple of questions that I had, and even though you and I have formed a friendship and a working relationship over the years, I don't think I've ever asked you this, which is, like, at the time you were you were a designer, you were one of the original founders of OMFG Co, and before that, you were at, Widen and Kennedy? Yeah. Yeah.

I was at Widen and Kennedy for a few years. About two years is all I could handle there. It was a great experience there, in the advertising, and it was like this weird threshold time of Widen trying to get into the digital interactive world. Okay. So I was kind of spanning across, just doing crazy online advertisement stuff, like banner ads, microsites, and then advertisement stuff like banner ads, microsites.

Then towards the end of my time at Widen doing internal presentations, that were web based or interactive based there for a little bit. And then I jumped over to a good friends of mine who had a shop called Instrument. I was their hire and, they were very much a web design studio at that time and didn't really quite have the path they've since gone on to now they have they're like 90 something employees now they're like a major force they're both a design interaction studio they're creating original content they that's they're like they're they're they're off on and running in an amazing way but when I was there it was just a small little little web shop. Then from that, I think that was around 02/2008, early two thousand and nine when that kind of all tanked with the economy. That's when I met Fritz and Jeremy, who I'd worked with prior at London and Kennedy.

They had just started OMFGCO, like, the month prior. And then we then we met up, and kind of brought me in as a equal partner, like, pretty much a month or two months after they had started the company. Okay. So for for people that aren't familiar with it, like in in the, ad world, like, Wieden Kennedy is like a behemoth. Yeah.

And you guys dealt with, like, the, you know, fortune 500 top companies. Like like explain why you were there, like what kind of companies you worked for and what type of work. You already discussed type of work, but like who did you work for? Yeah, so I had for about a year or two, only maybe almost finally decided to make the plunge, quit all my day jobs, and be a freelance designer. I was focused mostly on web design with a little bit because I have a traditional print design background as well, but had learned how to build websites along the way and design them and was making some money doing that.

Then got lucky getting into Widen, just so I knew some people that were there, and I got an interview and got in, and it was just I had, you know, I was really green at the time, and just like got thrown in. My day, I remember, was like Starbucks holiday, campaigns that were going on, and they were like, Hey, so we need these like, we need these banner, Flash banners that are like, you know, animated snow and like Santa Claus comes through and then something like, just like straight up animation in Flash at the time this was must have been like 2,006 something like that yeah 2005 and I I like kinda knew a little bit about that but it was just trial by just throw throw them in like and it was just trial by fire and it it was super fun, like, freaking out the month two months that I was there, like, oh my god. Am I even gonna do this? Like, can I do this? Right.

And, and then you just I think that's a really great way to get good at something fast. Like Trial by fire always works. Yeah. It works really well. You either you sink or swim there.

So that was that was really fun. So but we were working on Google, Starbucks, Coca Cola, Nike, obviously. That's their main their main client. Gosh, what we're, there was a ton of stuff because the digital interactive studio that I was part of within sort of the general studio of Widen, touched on every client because it wasn't segmented off yet. It was still finding its way in the company, We worked on everything.

I wasn't assigned to one client. I got to jump around all over the place, which is what I found I do like. If I'm stuck on one having to do one idea, one thing for too long, it gets boring quick. -Right. -It's hard to stay excited about that stuff.

Yeah, it was a pretty wild time. I just that world is I always tell people that time and space warp around that building. Uh-huh. And if you stay in it long enough, you start believing Right. That maybe like that advertising means something or that it matters in the world.

Right. And there's there's there's these people that are lifers there and I and I you know, they're they're awesome people, super talented, but they've been in the games and in that world for so long they start thinking that these ads for these giant companies like really matter and they really gotta like make sure this is and I I just don't I can't believe that, you know? Like, no one is gonna remember the little Coca Cola ad nowadays that's been on a billboard or whatever. Like, it's throw away. It's garbage.

It's just, it's here and it's gone. I could only stomach that for so long, and it was just like it was just too too crazy. Yeah. See, that's kind of interesting. I think I I had a a similar experience on that path because, when you brought me into working on that stuff with GAP, that was the like, really large scale, really high profile thing I had done.

And, you know, you kinda get caught up in the excitement of it, and it's Yeah. You know, you see the mass exposure, like those Pico to GAP trucks, you know, that was a huge social media campaign that really worked. Yeah. It was so much fun. But at the same time, it's like, you know, the more and more that I did for them, and Gap was a good company to work for.

Yeah, they were really cool. Surprisingly cool. Yeah, I actually enjoyed the people I met, you know, through that process. Mhmm. But it ended up leading to, I think, because other large scale companies saw that work, that led to getting calls to do things that I I really, you know, I was kind of appalled by.

Yeah. You know Yeah. There there was a, really large pizza chain, household name pizza chain that, wanted me to, essentially put myself out there, that they could connect with as we make our pizzas by hand, just like this guy paints signs by hand. Right. And it was horrible.

Yeah. I I think I recall you mentioning something about that a while, a little while ago, and Yeah. And and there was a not like an existential or moral crisis. We're just like, man, do I wanna this is gonna this is gonna eat up a ton of time. Oh, it was also an existential threat because I told them, I'm like, that's a lie.

Everyone knows it's a lie. I'm gonna be forefront of the lie. I'm just not interested to where their their response was. So how much money do you need? Yeah.

And at that moment, I felt like a complete horror and walked away from the whole thing. I'm like, I can't do this, man. See, and that's that's that's why I I got a lot of respect for you, man. Because it's just that that takes you gotta be able to to know what you wanna do. I think and I go just going back real quick to the gap stuff, like, when we were doing that work, I felt like we were getting away with, like, something.

I was like, I can't believe they're letting us hire a sign painter to paint this stuff in a gap. Like it was like, it was, we I think we all had this feeling of like, are they really gonna let us do this? Like I was in the same astonished state, you know, especially because sign painting had not reached any kind of thing like it is now with the movie out and the book and all that. I'm gonna put my coat on, I'm freezing my butt off. I had to turn off the heaters, because when I have them on, you can hear it in the background.

-Uh, yeah. So, anyways, but yeah, I was, I was really freaked out. I was, felt the same kind of thing, like, are we all gonna get busted? Because Yeah. Totally, it's a liquor.

We're in this fancy mall and the Glendale Galleria painting on the walls. It's like, is upper management gonna come in and chase us off? I didn't know. Yeah. It felt like we were, like, smoking in the boys' room or something.

It was very much like, and that was it was funny because that was I think that I didn't really realize until you said that was kind of pre sign painter movie, pre, like kind of that major, like the bigger focus that's been on sign painting, and I feel like we were just so excited to be able to like interact with someone like you and get that kind of work done in a place that it normally would have been. Like I think I think that little project I think encapsulates the whole movement of people going, the pre finalized society and the whole new focus on that. I think we were kind of we were always we've always looked at that kind of stuff like the the sort of vernacular design, the just the the folk the folk transmission of of art I think is what has always interested me and and I know WFJECO was definitely looking at all that stuff. Well, and that and that's really always kind of been a question to me, is, like, what were you guys thinking when you got, like this really big juicy contract from GAP? Like, what made you come to the conclusion of let's get a sign painter down there?

That that seemed like such an odd reasoning to me. I mean I was happy, but I'm just like, what in the world are they doing? I think, I know for myself, and I think that that it was always I'm always trying to find the most subversive angle possible in any job. I think, I I love the idea of, you know, these are these are clients these are clients that can afford to pay top dollar. You know, like, I've I've always talked about the the, like, the Robinhood business model.

Mhmm. And I that's something that I learned from my one of my design heroes, this guy, Tibor Coleman, who did Colors magazine back in the day and and had a really great studio called M and Co. He talked about that as well. Like, the there's a scale you know the gaps and the Nikes they're at the further end of the scale. Right.

And we're gonna charge them as much as possible and try to do as much because it is in that corporate world things tend to get watered down. Ideas start here and then they just kind of slowly get watered down through that management process, legal processes. We got lucky I think on those jobs because we kind of snuck in. And there I don't think the the upper tiers realized on that gap job. What you were really doing?

Yeah. I don't think they we didn't have any approvals that went through upper management. We just worked with this really great art director there, and who just brought just kind of was like, Do your thing you guys. We were like, Alright, well we love neon, we love sign painting, and we love, you know, weird esoteric poetry for taglines and all sorts of stuff like that. So I think we just they did and they just let us do it.

And, you know, I think that was that was always a fun thing to partner with really other talented people. That's that's that's something I think that started there and I'm trying to continue to do in my work as well is is find really great like minded people who are super talented and let them do their thing because when I got the chance to do my thing, like it always turned out great. And it's like when you can bring in people and everybody can get paid and do good work and have fun, that's that was really the ideal, so Well, and that that was such a blast for me, working on all those projects with with you guys was that, I'd like I said, I'd never done anything at that level before, and you guys were just like, just do your thing. And I'm like, you know, I was at going into, well, do you want the the corner sharp? Do you want and you're like, I don't know.

Just do what you want to do. Which was really, really awesome because that made it fun. And then I was able to bring, John Arnott, which you guys all met. Yeah. Which, you know, that that guy is just, he's he's one of those, once in a lifetime guys that, like, really changes how you work and how you view things, and it was a really awesome thing to have him involved in all that, too.

That was really awesome to just because, like, we'd always, like, seen photos, you know, the old archive photos of sign painting and like you see that and you're like, wow, that's really cool. But then when you see, like that was like what getting to work with you guys is the time I really get to see real craftsmen doing doing the work and like doing their trade. That was just like, it was just amazing. Like there, you see it as a photograph, and then you see someone actually doing that work, and it's just, I think that's where they've, you truly get to appreciate that and see something that's just, it's so worth bringing that in whenever it can make sense to me. That was really awesome.

Yeah. That job at the Glendale Galleria was a real challenge though because we had such limited time. Yeah. And, I remember the, there was one wall that had all this legalese fine print stuff that I'll get lettered and I really hated you guys for that. But, Yeah.

That's I I We had you do the the the policy in terms of services for signing up for a gap credit card. Yeah. There's like sign bank. There's like 50 or 60 paragraphs of shit. It was huge.

It was I look back on that and I'm like, that is torturous. But it was also like you you look at like, really? They're gonna sign paint the credit card terms of service? Like, that that to me is like, it is like getting away with something really ridiculous and amazing. Like, even if you just didn't read it, seeing that giant piece of hand lettered text is just like, it's just something to behold.

I think that's, I think that's, that was like kind of our job is to like bring in these moments that'll just liven up this room, and you know trying to find ways to really dig into the history of the area like Glendale being the Jewel City. Kind of learning about all that stuff and like just those are these are classic sort of this is classic vocabulary, neon sign painting. Those are those are moves that have happened throughout time in Los Angeles and you know I think that was was a really cool thing for us to be able to like, well, this just makes sense. It's all around us. We can use these moves inside a mall and try to class the place up a little bit.

Well, I learned a lot from that whole process and and, you know, like I've told you over the years, I've consistently ripped you off since then. Well, yeah. It was a really cool thing. So, okay, so you're you're working at this huge behemoth ad agency for these huge companies. Then you guys, you broke off with Yep.

Those guys to form OMFG Co. Yep. Yep. And then, that kind of just like exploded. You guys got tons of media coverage and support for that.

How did that all come by? Was that all completely organic, or Yeah, it was. It was, I, so I'd I'd been through Widen, had did a year with instrument, and then the economy kinda tanked, and they laid off a bunch of people. And I was sort of set loose to the winds again and, was freelancing just as much as I could. And I I got a studio space with a good buddy of mine who used to work at Widen as well, this guy, Paul Bjork.

And we, were sharing, like a rinky dink little little office in Chinatown in Portland, up on the Third Floor of this building. And, we needed we had extra room and we needed we needed to share the space up a little bit. So I kinda reached out to my network and Fritz, who I worked with at Widen had left as well, most freelancing, and he had just started talking to this other guy who was still internal at Ace Hotel to, to do to do their own thing. And so I was like, well, just we got room. You guys gonna want an office?

And they're like, yeah. Sure. They they met up at the space and we all just painted the floor, you know, cleaned the walls up, built a couple of desks, like threw some slabs of wood on some sawhorses and just called it a called it a creative office and we all kind of were all doing our own thing. And I started working with with with Fritz and Jeremy on some of the their their their client they had just got was this restaurant and charcuterie business called Olympic Provisions. And so we just started working together kind of immediately.

Hit it off really, really well. And they had just just created the legal entity of OMA F Chico and quickly amended it to add me as a as a partner. And we were just off and running. Like, we just it was, it was completely not looking forward much at all. It was just like, we're having a lot of fun.

We really like each other. Let's make a company. Let's do it. And we just signed the boilerplate papers and off went off running and didn't didn't look back. And We had a we found a really good rhythm there for almost three years.

It was a really interesting time. We got a lot more attention than we ever expected. I never expected that to happen. But we we got to do some really, really great work and and had a lot of fun and I learned so much. Now are you the one that designed the meet sign?

So yeah, so that was that was like a group everything was a group effort. There was really like, you know, everybody was just throwing ideas around. We had we were constantly sketching, drawing, you know, showing each other our screens, like what we were working on. So, the meet sign was like, I think, in the was like in the back of the brains for a really long time. Like, the client actually couldn't afford it, and they were like, Yeah, we really want to do this, but I don't think we can afford it.

Cause we were trying to like go to architectural salvage and find letters and like put it together. And, we were like, you know, like we just we felt so strongly about that sign going in there because we knew it would could be like the photo moment and just tie the whole room together. And so basically we're like this has to happen we'll just build it we'll figure out a way to build it so we got some sheets of really good plywood you know traced all the letters out got a jig you know a a band saw and just cut the thing out and then wrapped it with some some some, some sheet metal, all rolled up sheet metal and cut ourselves terribly, pounded a bunch of little nails in to fit it all in, and then like drilled a bunch of holes and ran Christmas lights through the whole thing. It was just very I mean, we did it for like $300, I think. For people who don't know, that it's the, it's the individual letters with the lights inside of it.

It's become It's very Coney Island. It's like it's it's old Americana. It's like not a new idea by any means. No, no, not at all. But it it sparked something.

I I was at Target the other day, and they were selling these little signs that was the same exact approach, but they were like tiny little Christmas lights in them. And, you know, it just, it's just one of those things, you know, that just became something, which I thought that was pretty interesting that, that had a life to it. And even though it is borrowing from something old, it kind of became something of its own. Yeah. I think the one of the one of our favorite quotes that I think, has inspired me for a long time is this guy, Jim Jarmusch, the filmmaker.

He says something along the lines of, like, it's not where you get your inspiration from, it's where you take it to, that matters. And I think that I I truly believe that because there's in our world now, I feel like you can look up anything. You wanna find an image of anything, you can probably find it. Yeah. And someone's tumbled it or Pinterested it or posted it somewhere, you know, like it's just everything is revealed, at this point.

One of my favorite Morrissey quotes, which he stole from someone else, is, talent borrows, genius steals. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Totally.

If you're not pulling inspiration from everything, you're not doing your job. Exactly. And I think that was something that that I think we we did well. I I I think we we knew how to look at something and try to twist it into something new and a little different, a little fresh, a little subversive take on stuff. And, yeah, that meat sign was one of those things where we were like, once we installed it, we're like, we kind of called it, we're like, this is gonna be the New York Times photo.

When this when this restaurant gets written up in the Times, we're gonna this is gonna be in the background. Sure enough, like, about four months later, it was. And so we're like, that that right there was sort of a lesson that I think that I've that stuck with me was like, following your gut, even if even if you're gonna maybe lose lose a little money or break even or, you know, like, it's not about if the client can afford it or or what. It's more about like, is this really gonna make this this really gonna tie it all together, and, like, what's the motivation for the work? I think that was a that was a big one.

Gotcha. So, okay. So you you were in Portland for quite a while. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm from I'm an Oregonian by birth and was in Portland for, I don't know, about a decade, I think. Okay. So, like, when you watch Portlandia, is that, like, pretty close? Yeah. No, I love it.

It's absolutely true. People people in Portland who still live in Portland, they get all up in arms, like, Oh, you know, let's it's fully true. Every single episode is 100% true. When when I lived up in Seattle, Tacoma area, I got sent down to Portland a few times, to do some work. But that was before the hipster explosion up there.

So Yeah. I think Portland, India could be LA, it could be Brooklyn, it could be anywhere that has a contingency of young, overeducated, underpaid people. Yeah. Gotcha. So so now you're in LA.

Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep.

Yep. Yep. How did that transition come about? And, you know, I also notice, from stalking you occasionally, that you you do a lot of work still in Portland, so you fly back there. How how does that all work?

So, actually, it's it's funny. I think that that those gap jobs with with you are kind of a central a central theme to all this, really. Those those jobs that that was the time I really got to work and hang out in Los Angeles was doing the work for gap. And I remember just being like, wow, I really not wanting to trust my own feelings. I'm like, do I like this place?

Am I liking LA? Like, I'm not supposed to like you're not supposed to like LA if you live outside of it. And, I remember just like, getting this feeling like, yeah, this is kinda cool, actually. And, and, you know, my partner's being like, oh, god. I can't wait to get back to Portland.

This is crazy. And I was just sort of like, I don't know. This is kinda good. And, my lady, Alicia, and I would come down, and visit and do like a week in Joshua Tree and and I think we kind of fell in love with the desert just like getting getting out of escaping Oregon and getting some good some sunshine. Yeah.

We just kept coming down here and we're like I think we could live here. It just kind of it just kind of was like in the back of our minds. And then, when OMAFCO fell apart, our partnership fell apart, we were all just kind of sitting there. Alicia Alicia had been working at Yiddish and Kennedy for at the time as well. She she was doing her two year stint there And right around the same time that that OmoF GCO partnership kind of crumbled and she was, like, getting burnt out by Wieden and Kennedy herself, we were like, we could just get out of here.

We just kind of saw a break in the clouds and and, we made the decision and saved up for a few months as much money as we could and then we just took the summer off and camped our way down the coast, with really no plan in mind or no no place to live and, loaded everything up in storage that we didn't need. Just camped our way down and and found our way found our way here until we kind of landed in, the arts district here, in downtown. Cool. Yeah. One of my, weirdest, LA stories happened while working at the Gap.

I don't I don't know if you were there. It might have been one of the other guys, but there was a big evergreen tree in the, in the outside area at the Gap store at, -Still in The Grove? -In The Grove. -Yeah. -And they were chopping all of the branches off of it.

And they were reinstalling the branches so that it would make the perfect Christmas tree. And I was like, this is the ultimate LA metaphor right here. They're killing this awesome tree so that they can have one awesome Christmas with it. It's like - Right. -Wow, that is insane.

- Yeah, that I was that was one of the things that we took that was a story that we took back to Portland, and we were just like, you won't believe what they're doing. Like, it was it was insane, and I think that is very true of a lot of parts of LA. I think the thing that I've found since moving here is like that weirdo fake life exists, and you can avoid it. Oh LA is totally bipolar. I mean they're, you know, you can go into, you know, Highland Park and you know it's a totally different environment.

So Yeah, it's a really big place and like the cliches are all true but they're also avoidable, so I think, you know, if you've got a job you gotta drive to every day and you're you're in Hollywood or you're in the West Side and you're in the film world or the advertising world, it can it can be pretty bad. But there's room to do your own thing in this city and and we've we've found really great luck. A lot of the people that we've met from doing those gap jobs really expedited our our like comfort level into getting into the city. Like the folks at Paquedo, Ted and Angie, were amazing folks who just basically walked us through our neighborhood that we now live in. And that's and And I'm finding it there's there's a choose your own adventure sense here.

There's no one stopping you and there's no one really helping you, but there's a lot of opportunity and a lot of stuff kind of floating around. If you can kind of just find find your zone, it's it'll it can be really good. Cool. So, you're you you've been operating basically as as a freelancer, is that correct? For Yeah.

Several years now, and you just launched Radical Co op? Yep. Yeah. So, like What's the deal with that? Yeah.

It's it's more of like, just a natural extension of what's been happening, as a as a sole sole proprietor or, you know, single single owner operator, you get screwed on taxes if you don't have a business like an LLC to run stuff through. As part of utility, like man, I really need to get a proper business to like route all this stuff through instead of just being a sole proprietor, self employed. Also just getting I'm about a three year mark here in LA and starting to feel really comfortable with what I think I can do and building that network of people that I can partner with to do good work. I was just sort of like, Okay, now I can start a studio. Radical Cooperative is kind of this thing in the back of my mind that I feel is has always been the larger overarching idea of how I like to do work is like, it's not a one stop shop in reality logistically, technically, but it can be, because I know great fabricators, I know great neon people, I know sign painters that are amazing, I know photographers, all these different people that are assets within which would be a creative agency that all exist in a larger network and just being able to pull the right people in at the right times is kind of the the idea behind the co op.

You know I can have a great idea for like sort of overarching creative and art direction for a project but I can't do all of it. I don't want to do all of it. It would be a disservice if I tried to do all of it. So, and trying to hire people under that studio is just so expensive and I think most people want to have the freedom to be freelance. So I think that's kind of the the idea behind the co op is just to be able to bring in people as needed, and get to do great, great work in that way.

Very cool. So you, you one area we also connect on, you're also a motorcycle fanatic. Yeah. So let's talk motorcycles. Yeah.

So that that ties into my some of my my one of my longest standing Portland clients is a CC Motor Copy. They've they came Now what is that exactly? Is that like a coffee shop and they sell motorcycle stuff? What is it? Yeah.

It's a building. So, it's a building that's half coffee shop and half motorcycle shop. Exactly. You can go in and buy a helmet, a quart of oil, some new spark plugs, gloves, and then go over to the other side of the building and get a get an Americano and like a little pastry and hang out in this It's the greatest thing in the world. It's like one of the the I miss that more than the many things in Portland.

Being able to go over there and hang out with those guys and it's a it's the most inclusive motorcycle thing that you could ever be a part of because there's you know anybody who knows motorcycles knows like it just gets divided into like oh yeah chopper chopper guys or race guys or superbike guys or you know cafe racers or whatever the hell you know like and cc just brings in everybody It's like anything two wheels. Are you excited? Are you cool? Like, you're gonna be positive about this? Like, come hang out.

Like, it's really, it's really a great thing. And, so yeah. So like, when I, my buddy Kevin, who I played guitar in a band in, had been riding motorcycles for a long time and was like, Man, when are you gonna get a bike? When are you gonna get a bike? And I was like, I don't know.

I think it just kind of like was creeping up and on me, and then all of a sudden I found myself, you know, with my with my with my, M class license and taking the taking the safety training weekend, I don't know, five, six years ago, and it just it just was like, Here's the missing thing in my life. And now I got it real bad and I don't know I'm like the so we we live in this complex here in LA and we've got like this parking structure that's sort of built into the Seventh Street Bridge and I'm like the like hillbilly guy I think because I've got like the dirt bike, my my other get my Kawasaki, the trailer that I put the dirt bikes onto all, and everything's all kind of stuffed in a corner over there. And I think I'm just like, oh, god. I don't know what my neighbors think, but it's I I have a similar story as well that just you reminded me of. Again, at The Grove, which for people that don't know, that's like where all of the Hollywood and rich, elite famous people shop.

And, that, that day that we finished all that work in The Grove, and I remember that was the day, that you and I, we were kinda chit chatting outside, and we'd that was one of the times we'd really, I think, connected. But I was completely exhausted and went to when I drove in there, and anyone who knows my shop truck, it's an old '79 GMC, it's a rusty piece of crap, but it's a good truck. It's a great truck. But I, it's got these ladder racks on it. And when I pulled in there, this really obnoxious guy who's working in the parking garage for the mall is like, you've gotta go on the Top Floor with that thing.

And I'm like, Whatever, man. So, I'm driving up there, and when I was driving up to the Top Floor, I didn't have a problem. But when I went to leave, and this is like maybe 07:30, 08:00 at night, the angle of the roof of this parking garage, I was scraping with my truck. No exaggeration, there's literally sparks shooting off as it's going under each little crossbar. And I'm having to go down, like, I don't I think it was like six or seven floors to the bottom.

And I just kept driving past these rich ladies with beamers and stuff that were just horrified that I was passing by and this old piece of crap with the sparks flying. But what are you gonna do? You need you know, LA needs that. I think that's my feeling is, like, I'm trying to bring a little dose of of, some some reality, I hope, to the projects I do or a different reality, you know? Like, it's people get people take themselves too seriously and they're so wrapped up in, you know, an image.

Yeah, at least they can be. The really great surprising thing, about this about being here is like there's that exists, but there's so many great people. There's been so much so much great great folks that we've met and, who don't exude that cliched LA stereotype and it's Oh, yeah. I don't wanna just blanketly Oh, yeah. No.

That's okay. But they're there. Those people are there. But they are there. Those people are there.

And it's, and it's every It's there, and you can spot them from a mile away. Yeah. Every cliche you've ever heard about fake boobs and, you know, big fancy cars, that element is there. And when you come across them, it's almost surreal because it's like they're so disconnected, and they're so bizarre that they don't get there that bizarre, and it's kind of a freak show. Totally is.

And you got to do a little work, I mean we won't name names, but you got to do a little work for some of those elite upper crust, celebrity folks before you Yes. Hightail to Texas. Right? Yeah. No.

I'll I'll name names. I don't care. What are they gonna do? Take my podcast away? No.

Actually, one of my favorite people that I got to work for, was Lindsey Buckingham Affleet with Mac. Yeah. Really super cool, humble guy. He scared the crap out of me because he sat behind me and watched me Gold Leaf the window for hours. I'm just like, oh my god.

No pressure, -No pressure, right? No pressure. -But his wife was, she's a real famous interior designer, and, they've got this place in Beverly Hills that they had me come do a bunch of signs in Gold Leaf for. So what's next for you now, man? What are you what are you gonna dabble in next?

Let's see. I think just just trying to trying to keep the studio going and and trying to just I feel like I've found a path, now with with the co op and and just it's it's just the same thing I've been doing for for a long time. Just trying to do good work and and and make a decent living and and, and get out and enjoy the rest of the world as much as I can. I think that's been, you know, trying to find that balance between working too much and working just enough and getting away from it and letting it sit. I've got some good projects coming up with the community.

I think one of the things I was thinking about with with the with the studio is just really focusing on my my locality. Like, I don't think I'm gonna try to position the studio to be serving the American West. Like, I don't think we're gonna do work East Of The Rockies because I don't know that. I don't know the rest of that world. I think a big thing there's enough happening in Los Angeles and San Francisco and Portland to keep me busy the rest of my life.

Oh, yeah. For sure. And I found, that most of the work that I've been getting has been word-of-mouth. Like, I there's there's my web presence is is laughable, on intentionally. But, it's mostly been, oh, hey.

I heard heard heard heard from this other guy. He did a project from them. Hey. We've we've got this thing. You wanna meet for for a beer or for coffee?

And it's been very old school in that way. Like, just getting a phone call or an email and, like, hey. Let's meet up and talk. And that's been awesome because it kind of filters the filters the kooky clients for you, generally. And so it's it's been really good.

And I just I think the big thing is, for me, is just trying to maintain my relationships and and my my reputation and and not worry so much about the work being as, you know, unique and forward and future or I don't know. Like, I I think good work happens when you work with great people. And, I care more about maintaining those relationships I think than I do like fussing over, oh did I do that just right or did I nail that? Did I do it at least? Or the next big thing and not pushing up money.

Or I I gotta make sure I photograph this so I can get, you know, get attention online for it afterwards. It's like, I don't I'm that's why I don't have a website now. It's like I've got years worth of stuff that could be or should be photographed and put it all up in some portfolio. But, that's why I was loving that in one of your earlier podcasts, like talking about the portfolio with the, like, taking an actual photograph to get developed. I was like, that's that's really the attitude.

It's like, there's a whole bunch of stuff nobody needs to see going on background. There's a lot of people. And, you know, I I I just have this and and I know you've got it too. I've just got this disdain for social media, but at the same time, I mean, it's like you can't not participate Yeah. And be in business, but I hate that I have to.

And I hate that, you know, like, what was it, last year? I mean, we had built up a huge following on Instagram. Yeah. And I just kept getting bombarded with these, you know, ridiculous comments and questions, and I just got frustrated, deleted it, and now I'm trying to rebuild it again, because I'm trying to, you know, get people to, you know, engage with the podcast and everything, but I'm just like, I I hate it. Yeah.

I mean, just do my job, man. Yeah. I know. It's it's it's hard to play that game. There's a way to play the game, I think, though, where you can be yourself and not feel over overwhelmed.

But it takes some it takes some discipline and like a real clear point of view and, yeah I mean I yeah I'm with you man, like it's just it's so not thought thought out, and that's why I'm really I was like when you when you said you're doing this podcast I was just like man that's so surprising, but also really makes sense because you can you can have a conversation. You can have it be your own thing. There's no rules about this stuff. And, people who are shit total punk rock, you know? I love it.

It's like, you know, guys that had like the worst guitars and no ability to play them, you know, did some cool stuff, and it's like I have no idea how to do all this electronic technology editing crap, but you know, I'm having technology editing crap, but - Yeah. You know, I'm having conversations and people are liking it, and I'm getting to talk about what I want to talk about without some stupid corporate sponsor telling me, you know, Oh, well we need to steer the conversation this way. It's like - Yeah. Ain't nobody telling me what to say. I kinda like that.

No. It's good. I think that's that's that's truly the spirit that I think is is needed more of, and, like, it's it's great. Like, I've been I was talking to some guys yesterday. I was like I was like, You guys know Sean Star?

And they're they're in the lettering and hand sign hand signing world, and they're like, He's got a podcast? You know? And it's like, They're they've flipped out, and I was like, Yeah, man. It's gonna be really cool. Like you gotta check it out.

And it's, I feel like I I run into so many people, and there's they're there it's really a lot of folks they're listening to these people and some of the stuff is really produced super well you know like Radiolab and all that other stuff and it's like it makes it nice you know with all the crazy sound design and tons of money getting tossed into it. But really, I have just as much fun listening to, you know, you and and, and Tom Collins talk than than without all the fluff around it, you know, like Yeah. That's the exciting thing. And I'm I'm still working on ways to improve, you know, the sound quality and stuff, you know, I want it to be good, but at the same time, it's, you know, I know over the years, you know, one of my favorite things is these conversations, you know, I've had people, either other sign painters, painters or people like yourself that I've worked with, and it's just like, you know, that that to me is a blast. Yeah.

I think it it really comes back down, like I'm a broken record of motive. It's all about your motive. Like if it doesn't really matter too much about the end product. Like it doesn't matter how slick or fancy it is. If motive is true and you know what it is and you're saying something honest and real, that's all that matters.

Yeah. That's why Bob Dylan has staying power. His voice is terrible. Exactly. But he's Bob Dylan, and he created that, and and it's awesome.

You know? I think that's the biggest that that for all all the stuff I've learned through the years of the different, you know, different jobs I've had and having that studio and having to fall apart and all stuff, it's the work is the the work is the the work comes is a Wieden and Kennedy quote, but it also is motive comes I think really. Understanding why you're doing the thing you're doing. If you can, if you're just doing something, I think in the you know getting back to the like why are you, why are these young kids trying to be sign painters? You know, are they really putting in the time?

Are they really what is their their motive? Are they just trying to get get some attention or are they trying to get good? Really good? You know, I think that's that's the key. It's the the motive is the key.

Absolutely. So, let's talk tunes, man. Oh, yeah. What what have you been listening to? And, you know, give me some guilty pleasure stuff.

Everybody keeps naming off this obscure, like, really cool stuff, and that's good, but come on, we all listen to some crap once in a while. What are you listening to? So I was thinking about that because I was like, I've been a little disappointed with the, like, oh, I can't sound I can't sound I gotta make sure I got everybody knows what I'm listening, like, you know, what it really isn't to. If you're listening to Abba's greatest hits, I ain't gonna judge you. Come on.

Yeah. So for me recently, and this is it's not embarrassing. It's just out of character for me. I've been getting into like sort of 90s and 2000s hip hop. Okay.

And I'm and it's just you know people who know me they're like dude you're gonna listen to hip hop. What's the deal? But I don't know as I get older and like being in Los Angeles there's there's a record label that's been in Highland Park for the last ten years called Stones Throw Records and they there's some great, great music and producers. This guy's Madlib, this other guy named Jay Dilla, MF Doom, this dude that wears this crazy mask when he raps. It's it's kind of like it's so not what I've what I'm normally drawn to, but it's been a really awesome like sort of segue away from, you know, The Kinks, which is basically all I normally listen to.

Okay. The Kinks. Yeah. No. Yeah.

That's, you know, the it's the Beatles or Stones question. The answer is The Kinks. Okay. Alright. Well, if you're taking a stand, I like that.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know you also listen to, like, some really crazy aggressive, metal y kind of music. You've sent me some links before, and I'm just like, I can't do that, man.

Yeah. Yeah. Actually, it's it's funny, and that's been getting less and less as I, like, mellow out and get a little older. Yeah. Like, the stuff I was listening to when I was in my mid twenties, I was like, oh, man.

I was so angsty. So much angst. Yeah. I know. I used to listen to a lot of punk, and, like, now, I just sit there listening to Van Morrison and a lot of that kind of stuff, just much more mellow.

Yeah. Way more mellow. You know, I think it just comes with your perspective, you know, like, how stressed out are you? How, you know, young and angsty are you? And, I still will I love being able to pop in, you know, Misfits or something crazy like that, but it's mostly now it's a lot of Django Reinhardt.

Yeah. Got a lot of him on my Got a lot of got a lot of that. This fellow named Bri Webb, who was a singer in a band called Konstantines, who was still my one of my favorite rock bands, that are of modern times. But he's a great singer songwriter. And then Bill Callahan.

I think a lot of Bill Callahan. Another country kind of folky songwriter guy. Yeah. I'm a big fan of John Prine. He's kind of that genre too.

Oh, yeah. John Prine was like that's like an she's an ancestral memory for me. Like my my uncle, my dad were like Yeah, he was one of their main songwriters. There's always a John That was a great thing being able to go through your parents' old vinyl collection when I was a kid and just like Yeah, A lot of John Prine, a lot of Zeppelin, and a lot of, you know, there's that sort of Southern California kind of 60s 70s, a lot of Fleetwood Mac. Yeah.

Good stuff. Alright man. Well, thanks for coming on the show. Absolutely. Which is basically just two of us sitting here, but that's cool.

Yeah, man. I've I've been looking forward to it. I've had such a blast here in all the other conversations, and, I I it'll be interesting to to be the non sign painter, I think. I think yeah. I think you are.

Alright. Cool. Yeah. It's pretty fun. Yeah.

You're we've we've inducted you in. So Yeah. I'll I friend of sign painting. If I can be, you know, Matthew Foster, friend of sign painters, I'll I'll be happy with that. Okay.

Well, I'm I'm I've still got intentions to get your hand with a get a brush in your hand. Well, I'm still you know, I didn't I didn't bring that up. I'm I'm I'm working on that a little bit, but I'm I'm by no means entering the entering the trade. You're not willing to call yourself a master sign painter? No.

No. But I'm get I'm getting some I'm getting some one shot on my fingers here and there. Okay. Well, you guys have the low VOC stuff out there now. I got a couple of cans.

I haven't even cracked them open to try them yet. But Yeah. I've been hearing about this. I'm curious to see what the difference is about. Not not really sure, but whatever.

Alright, man. Well, Great chatting with you, Sean. Yeah. Good talking to you. Hey.

So there we go. Another episode. Like to thank Matthew for coming on. I really appreciated that and enjoyed it. And, you know, I was thinking the other day, it'd be kind of good to occasionally, put something out there for those of you that are, trying to learn, the trade.

One thing I would like to recommend is, maybe set aside some time on a regular basis to just sit down and sketch with a pencil and paper. You know, a lot of us, do it on a regular basis. A lot of my sketches are really crude. They're not nice. They're not something you'd want to frame and share with your friends, but that's okay.

It's the immediacy of being able to work out ideas and work out kinks with pencil and paper, I think is far more valuable to the creative process than just sitting there on the computer and trying to move different forms around. So, so there you go. That's my little tip is, take some time and draw. You know, it's, there's definite advantages to working with the computer, as far as using it as a tool. But don't depend on it.

Don't rely on it. Really exercise your skill of drawing and, it'll really help your paint work. So, there you go. There's my tip. Alright.

Well, again, thanks for tuning in for yet another week and, thanks to everybody for the support and the thumbs up and emails and social media comments that we're getting. I really do appreciate it. If you like the show, go to iTunes, subscribe, and hit us up, and give us a review. That would be great. Till next week, enjoy yourselves, do some paint work, do some drawing, and, enjoy a good cup of coffee.

Today's episode of Coffee with a Sound Painter is brought to you by Full City Rooster Coffee Roasters in Dallas, Texas, roasting distinctive coffees from around the world. Sean drinks Full City Rooster coffee every day in the studio. You can order their coffee online at fullcityrooster.com. Thanks for listening to Coffee with a Signpainter, hosted by Sean Starr. You can find all sorts of info about the show and sign painting, including previous episodes at our website, seanstarr.com.