Episode 2: Interview- Josh Luke of Best Dressed Signs, Boston

In this second episode Sean conducts his first interview with Josh and Meredith of Best Dressed Signs in Boston. Subjects include social media and its affect on the craft as well as San Francisco and its influence on the modern sign painting movement.

Transcription:

Coming to you from Starr Studios in Denison, Texas, this is Coffee with a Signpainter, a weekly podcast hosted by sign painter, Sean Starr, that consists of interviews with other sign painters and some of the customers and characters Sean comes across while running his studio. Alright. Well, welcome to episode two of Coffee with a Sign Painter. Today, I'm interviewing, Josh and Meredith from Vestress Signs in Boston. And, we we had some some good conversations.

I think you're gonna enjoy it. Just a little background on on this show, some of the things that we're gonna be talking about. Specifically, a subject I'm fairly impassioned about is, social media and my disdain and love for social media. This show we're doing right now probably wouldn't even exist without it. And at the same time, it's, it's kind of an obnoxious thing.

The expectations and the, the entitlement that some people have with social media. But, we dig into that a little bit. Also, dig into some of the history, that Josh and Meredith have with San Francisco, which is something I share as well. And, we have some fun talking about that. And, you'll notice as we get into the interview, there's, kind of an oddball reference at the beginning to, to my, my bladder.

And a little background on that is, as we were kinda warming up and getting things on track and I was downing coffee after coffee, it created some, urgency to, go to the restroom. So that's where we jump in. But, you know, just kick back and relax. I think you're gonna enjoy this, and, here we go. Episode two.

I I hope we're not making you more nervous for future interviews because, we're we're we're we're not, I hope we're not we're not bombing or something. Oh, no. I have a bladder the size of a golf ball. What's that? I have a bladder the size of a golf ball.

Yeah. Me too. So if I sit there and down coffee, it's just an issue. Yeah. No.

I know. Me too. Me too. So Before we get into the question, I will address that if the listeners hear a rumbling noise Yeah. An actual train behind us in our train station It's awesome.

That we're in. So Why are you you in a train station? This was built in the late eighteen hundreds, and, this train station was originally called Union Station, and it was the hub coming into Texas from the rest of The US. Oh, wow. So this was actually in its heyday.

There was more activity here than in Dallas. Wow. And is that where your shop is? Or Yeah. Our stew I'm in my studio right now, and we're here in inside the old train station.

And this part of the train station was originally the formal dining room. Oh, cool. Okay. Like, really elaborate with really cool columns and pillars and it's really Right. That's awesome.

That's a good spot to be in then. Yeah. And I actually like the trains. Yeah. Yeah.

Which is a step up up because our studio in San Francisco Yeah. Are we shared a wall with the show Mythbusters. Oh, okay. And they were literally blowing stuff up, and so you're working constantly. I heard heard about them out there.

Interesting. Yeah. Boom. Interesting. Yeah.

So Sorry. I never got a chance to come visit you before you, left. I was, I didn't really, I guess I was still pretty young into to sign painting when you were still doing when you were doing work out there. Yeah. You know, it was always on my agenda to, like, come see the new Bohemia guys.

I've not I never even stepped foot in the shop there. Mhmm. But I was it's kinda weird, you know. The period that led up to, like, let's say, the sign painter book and movie coming out. Yeah.

My experience for years had been, if you just went in on somebody hostile. Yeah. Right. Right. I kinda laid low, and then, Bob Dewhurst Yeah.

Which you probably know Yeah. It turned out his his studio well, his compound Okay. Was like two blocks from where ours was. Right. Yeah.

One day, I think, with Jimmy the Saint Yeah. Pinstriper guy. Yeah. And, we just totally hit it off. I I love Bob.

That guy is my, Totally. He's my hippie soulmate. So Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

From there forward, you know, talking and swapping brushes and doing stuff. But, you know, I'd I'd been you know, in this period of time, I would have no apprehensions. But back then, I was like, I don't know if I just dropped in those guys. You know? And Right.

Yeah. Yeah. Right. It was a little bit different back then. I mean, even I I was still pretty young, but we didn't, we kinda were doing our own thing.

It wasn't really like, we weren't really as, like, out there publicly as as it would New Bohemia kinda is now. So it was just kind of like this little shop and, you know, I mean, it was a lot, I mean, a lot different than than today when you can you just communicate with each other already, you know, through the Internet. So you kinda get to know everybody. Yeah. I think a lot of the barriers came down.

You know? Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

It's a lot easier when you see somebody talking in a video or, you know Yeah. Or read an interview with them, and you're like, oh, okay. They're pretty chill. You know? Yeah.

Right. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny.

Did you ever meet, Pete Kimac? Did he ever come around? He's like an older guy. He had a ponytail, and he, he's like a kind of funny jokester. He'd come around and tell jokes, but he was an old sign painter, like, billboard artist that kinda would I think him and Bob Bob Dewhurst knew each other.

Bob Bob brought by a couple of guys, to just, you know, come visit in the studio, but I I I don't remember him specifically. Okay. Yeah. Did did you guys ever, know about the the guy under the bridge with all the great, supplies? Yeah.

Yes. Actually, I have some of those, I have some of those brushes that are, like, some of my favorite brushes that I Uh-huh. I didn't find out about that until later. And, you know, that was, like, Bob Bob's, like, spot, and that was, like, only about two blocks away from Mesopotamia. Be a story that you should I don't know where you're talking.

Yeah. We should probably lay the groundwork. Okay. Yeah. Well, there was, like, an old, art supply, like, wholesale place that would take supplies from, like, you know, like, art supply stores that had shut down or whatever.

So we had a whole stock of, like, old So it was a shop. It wasn't just, like, a No. No. No. No.

No. No. No. No. No.

Well, I mean, a lot of the stuff he had was on the original, like, cardboard. But on, like, the turn of the century, I've got brushes still that, like, were from the nineteen twenties, '19 thirties, and they were brand new. They were just, like, preserved in history. I mean, it's selling for, like, $3. Right.

And Wow. Like, if I had known about that, like, back then, I wasn't you know, I was like I said, I worked working at New Bohemia, and I, like, I wasn't, I didn't know if I was gonna be, like, a sign painter. So But some, like, pawn that shop today, I would probably just it'd be like a crazy candy store. It won't blow my mind probably. But, anyway, it's funny because we always because Bob Dewhurst used to always talk about that.

And, when we went in there, we figured Bob had licked all the brushes already just to, like so if anybody else came in to take the brushes, like, he'd already licked them. So I know for a fact that he he hid some that he was wanting that before. So he, like, stashed stuff he wanted in in out of the way places. Well, we would we would always because we take our lunch breaks and go past there to go to the grocery store right there, and we'd always see Bob's truck, like, parked underneath the freeway over there. You know it was Bob's truck.

What's that? How would you know it was Bob's truck? How could you not know it was Bob's truck? For for those who don't know, Bob's truck is absolutely impossible to miss. It is completely covered with awesome graphics.

Yeah. Definitely. It is a it's a cool it's a very cool truck. And, yeah, I mean, those are the kind of guys that did get me excited about sign painting, seeing seeing, people like Bob and, and Pete, another guy that came around, Jimmy the Saint. You know, that that really opened my eyes to saying, oh, wow.

There's this whole other world out here besides, you know, this, besides New Bohemia, and all these other guys doing it. And that was just the you know, when I first started, that was just the beginning of, going out there and meeting more people. And when I when I found out someone, had told me about Gary Martin. And, and once I, you know, looked into what Gary Martin was doing, I was just like, wow. Like, I can't believe this is, like, so awesome.

And, you know, he Gary Martin was, like, my idol, to begin with and, still is to this day. Such a great person and, does some amazing art. And then just discovering more and more people doing it, it it just, really makes it exciting and pushes you to, you know, progress and be a better painter, be a better artist, sign painter. So anyway, it started all there underneath the bridge, I guess, in that the critiques of the older generation of sign painters feels like harsh or something like that. And at first it sort of stings and, you know, I mean, I've been critiqued before, you know, and harshly.

And it did hurt a little bit at first. And I was depressed and sort of looking at my lettering and just thinking, Oh God, what am I doing? And just doubting myself. But then coming out of that, I feel that it made me sort of pay attention, more detail to what I was doing and how my letters looked and how my design looks and if I was giving enough space and the correct spacing, design layout, size, everything. And I some words of comfort for you.

Yeah. I I I've, I've worked alongside and dealt with some phenomenal old time sign painters. Sure. And none of them feels like they got it under control. So it's like I think it's it's actually I really do believe it's a, a necessary personality trait to have that humility to be like, woah.

There's just so much more to learn because then you're always learning and you're always improving. Sure. But, yeah, I mean, there's there's guys like John Arnott. Gary Martin's another one. Gary Martin thinks he's like, why does everybody think this is good?

It's kinda you know? It's like, what are you talking about? This is amazing. Right. Right.

Yeah. I mean, it's I guess it's an important process in that, you know, and then looking back, I can you know, you're able to sort of pick out your mistakes and sort of learn from those mistakes and move on. The only thing the thing that I don't want to see, you know, in the future of of the sign painting or the trade is, I just I really don't wanna see I really like right right now, it's it's it's been really nice to you know, an open people talking to each other and being very positive with each other. The the thing I definitely fear is that it becomes, like, a negative, like, if people start being more negative towards each other, like, because there's so many so much more attention on the trade. And people maybe people's egos are getting blown out a little bit more, because they're getting gaining all this attention.

And I just fear that it I just don't want it to be ever become like this, sort of, more negative vibes to start happening and and not being able to communicate with each other and being afraid to communicate with each other. I love that too. You know, I I've seen that same progression, like, with, like, I think what's a very similar side by side is what happened with the tattoo thing. Mhmm. You know?

That kinda turned into this just kind of, like, very public phenomenon and spread, but, I think it created something kinda adversarial from the different tattoo shops I've worked with. You know, there's you just see some tension there, you know, and there's a lot of ego and a lot of posturing and that kind of thing. And I I agree that would be a horrible thing if that came into the sign painting realm. Right. Right.

Yeah. Definitely. And I guess you just have to really appreciate what you have and, not take it for granted and try to be open to other people, open to their criticisms, open to their criticisms. And, I don't know. Just remember what it felt like when you started, painting.

So, that's what I've been trying to do. I always I always look at I mean, I'm I'm fairly I mean, Meredith and I have we've been running this business for the past, like, five years now. Like, four and a half. Four and a half years. And that just feels like such a small amount of time, You know?

We're just not I mean, we're just now starting to to sort of get in our groove or whatever, but there's there's so much ahead. And, we're definitely excited about it, scared, everything in between. So That's good stuff. Yeah. I, I kind of kind of get back, I think, to what the original question was.

I I I'll go after questions. I I can kind of I can definitely see that having it's sort of a double edged sword having a having, like, a sort of, community that is intended to be positive, and supportive and everything because it's you know, we're, like, if you're if you're, like, congratulating everybody on, like, everything that they do, then they're never gonna, you know It's like giving all the kids a medal when they, like, play a baseball. You guys are are touching on something I'm doing an upcoming episode on just centered around social media, and I think how it has adversely affected creativity in that, I was thinking about this the other day when when I was learning from my dad and working, you know, twenty something years ago, That that there was no way of sharing anything. And we we only took pictures for our physical portfolio that had coffee stains and all this junk on it. We only took pictures of work that was either we looked at it and said, okay.

We really did great on this, or it was completely symbolic of a certain style or something that, you know, we wanted to show that we could do. Right. But now, it it's disturbing to me. I I'm seeing people posting things that are so crude and so undeveloped, and and they're, you know, they're trying to build followings for it and all this. It's it's like this whole obsession with Right.

Getting famous or perceived fame on social media Yeah. For whatever little thing they're doing than it is actually learning the craft. So it's like the the whole focus is in some bizarre place where it's just about, oh, well, I got, you know, a 82 likes on the Instagram, so it must be good. But yeah. I mean, I think you're definitely right.

There's a whole, there's like a there's a documentary called, Generation Like or something. I think it's called that. It's it's about the same thing. Just about the whole idea of, like, self worth coming from how many Facebook friends you have and and all that kind of thing. And that's that's a totally separate, so to speak.

Like, a whole future episode is just, like Yeah. You know, bringing all that out and just trying to make sense of it. Because, again, I I'm in this weird transitionary, era where I you know, when I learned that was pre Internet, just not long after that, the Internet started to turn into what it is. Yeah. Pre computer, but right after I got started, computers started entering the Right.

Industry, all of that. And so I kinda had this weird on the fence view of both sides. I and I think what I see with a lot of the old guard is, I think, just a little bit of resentment of, you know, paid the dues, swept the floors, put up with the abuse from the previous old guard. So we're very hardcore. Just shut up and do it, you know?

Yeah. And then now just for the focus to be so much on, I want attention for what I just did as opposed to I'm really trying to learn this because it's craft. You know, that's Yeah. Right. Right.

Yeah. I think where it's part of the disconnect is to where, when some of the younger guys reach out, you know, like, we get emails every week from people asking advice, asking, can you look at this? Can you look at that? And, I've I've participated in that somewhat. I mean, obviously, you only have so much time, but there is there it it's a little abrasive, you know, to me of just that feeling of, you're kinda trying to sidestep the process that the rest of us had to do Right.

You know, of putting in the hours and putting in the, you know, the effort. Yeah. I mean, I I definitely I was I mean, I was lucky in the sense that I mean, not not only because I working at New Bohemia, but also working at more, you know, like a modern sign shop. I would I would, advise people to to, I mean, work at a shop that does vinyl just because you've learned so much just doing that and, like, working in that environment. And, Soul sucking as the experience was for me, I agree.

Yeah. It teaches you a lot of good things. It really does. Yeah. Yeah.

You have to have your your soul has to get sucked in some way. I mean, otherwise, what are you doing? You know? How do you know what's good? But it is.

But back to, you know, like, the Internet and the social media, I mean, I I I feel like, like, I don't like, we kinda started the pre pre Previnalized Society as a kind of a face a Facebook page. And I really don't I don't like interacting on Facebook that much. So I don't like writing comments that, you know, that that are that long or anything like that. So it was kind of weird because I feel like almost feel like we're, like, responsible to kinda keep up. Meredith is the one who kinda keeps up with this.

So, If I yeah. You basically handed it off to me. But it I you know, people that are out there who are taking the time to answer people's questions, and, like the sign painter support group, like, you know, that's kind of like a lot of people are going to that Facebook page for advice. And John Donner has been very generous with his time. I'm amazed at how much time he puts into that to answer people's questions.

And I think, you know, if you're not used to that format, it it feels like it might be harsh or something, some of those criticisms. But I I do think it's it's it's an important, it's an important place to go to try to find some information and also to hear those critiques. I think you have to get used to the style, but I'm just amazed that and other people like, John Long, and other people who are participating, on on social media and giving out information and taking their time to write all that stuff. I'm I'm just amazed that that they are, you know, that willing to, interact and, spend that much time. But there, again, like, what you're saying, and and this is just the old timer half of me.

Half of me. I I hear that, and I I do think there's a value to it, but I think that there's this, this this trend that's also fully connected to social media and the way things are culturally now, that there's so much available on YouTube and answers available through people or websites or whatever that it's almost like people are in this virtual world creativity creatively where they are, they're they're going through the whole process in their mind that they're doing things, but they're not literally doing things. Right. And, you know, back in the day, the whole approach was part of it was survival, and part of it was just the process of you just go out and you start doing it. Yeah.

And you do every job you can get your hands on because each job is improving you. And if I were to go back and look at early work, I'm sure I'd be completely horrified. Fortunately, someone walked into my car years ago and stole pictures from a portfolio, and I'm actually okay with that. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Yeah. You know, it's, that's the way it it had been done for millennia is, you know, you just you you get some training and you get some understanding, and then you start go out and you start doing it. And it's horrible at first, and it slowly improves. And even later in life, it's probably not all that great.

Yeah. But, that, I think, is, the the the whole focus that culturally we have now on marketing and my brand and all this stuff has taken the focus off of just get off your butt and go out and sign a sign and deal with it if it's not great. But but that could be better. Yeah. That's I I absolutely agree with that.

And I feel like that's been sort of our our philosophy as well. And, I mean, going into it knowing that I'm gonna look back at some of this work and and be embarrassed by it or whatever, but I we just have to get it out there. And that's kind of what we've been doing even with the the the preVitalized society. It's like we didn't necessarily know what we're doing with that to begin with, but we figured we'd learn along the way. And, you know, it might change a little bit, and we might grow or change.

And I think that that's okay. But the most important thing for us was to just continually, produce, work, and just try to get ourselves out there and continually working Mhmm. And and just try to do the best we can along the way. But knowing that there's always gonna be failures, and there always is. Like, we the thing about the social media is, like, you know, All of your failures are recorded.

They're they're they're also recorded, but they're they're not they're not even recording all of your failures because you're not putting out all of your worst stuff. I mean, I think that maybe Meredith and I paint a picture of best dressed signs. And I think it also, it's a sort of a business strategy to kinda put out your your best work and put on a good face on, you know, online because you have clients who are viewing you and looking up best dressed signs in your website. And they they wanna have confidence in your work before they hire you. Mhmm.

But there's so much struggle behind the scenes and, like, difficulty in trying to make a living doing this. And it's a it's it's it's constantly I mean, the money situation is part of it. You know, taxes, health, everything else. Trying to get someone to help us, like an like an employee or an apprentice or So there was there was a lot of, but important thing is just doing it. And, like and I think one of the things is, like, maybe you were touching on a little bit earlier, was that we don't have any other choice at this point, like, unless we wanna, We could get real jobs.

I'm just not we're just not that qualified at anything else. Think or swim. Yeah. That's a beautiful thing. That's that's been life for thousands of years.

Is it sink or swim? And I think that's the I I I I, was watching this documentary on Mexican circuses, of all things, a while back. The guy had this proverb that he was talking about, that's an old Mexican proverb, but the gist of it is, if you want the donkey donkey to walk, put more on its back. Uh-huh. And he was talking about, you know, just that that whole you have to survive thing, and I I think that's, you know, that's the human experience.

So I wanted to give a a couple of seconds to a listener's question. His name, I believe, is Caetano Valenzuela, somebody that I've been interacting with on social media for a while, but I don't know the pronunciate pronunciation of his name. So, why don't you guys go ahead and, I'll play the question, and then you guys respond. I really love best dressed signs. It's one of my main inspirations for looking at letter forms and, just the surprising colors and layouts, I I really appreciate.

So what are some of the, inspirational imagery that you look at? Like, what sorts of, reference materials are you looking at when you're searching for inspiration for a new, sign layout, like, besides the usual suspects of of, of sign pictures, books, and things like that? Well, I was just gonna say hi to Caetano, and thanks for the question. Good question, and, hope you're doing well. We know Caetano, actually.

He's a he's a good guy and a good sign painter. So I've toasted it right? I I believe so. Oh, okay. I'm not exactly sure, though.

I believe so. He can email and correct me if he's Well, let us know what he's saying. So, any, I was I'll I guess I'll answer that question for for the stuff that I'm I'm interested in in referencing. I was gonna say, you know, besides, you know, get falling in love with a lot of the old sign trade books. Outside of those, like, references, I've been very interested in, chromolithography and, lithography in early, early twentieth century, late nineteenth century design.

That would be sort of my main inspiration right now, especially going into, just beyond, you know, sign painting into my own artwork and, other things that I'm interested in. That's definitely a big influence. Very cool. I I have one last question before we wrap it up that I've decided is going to be a mandatory question for all of you. And you have to be completely honest.

Okay. Even if it's a guilty pleasure, since since all creative people that I've ever worked with are, obsessive about their music Okay. What what is on your iPad this week? And you have to be full disclosure even if it's embarrassing. Oh, okay.

His or mine? Well You can both take a turn. Okay. You go ahead, Meredith. Oh, well, I mean but I I mean okay.

But I'm, you know, I'm not, like, the visually creative one, so I don't know that it's interesting to people. But I I listen to, like, punk, post punk, late seventies, early eighties. Throw out some names. Joy Division, Gang of Four, The Cure is my all time favorite. See, that's all the depressing music I grew up on.

But that's me. I mean, he likes that stuff too, but that's not, like, you know, it's not your main it's not what's on your iPad right now. I I guess I've been, like, having this, nineties nostalgia for some reason, lately, and I've been, like, I've been listening to a lot of, like, nineties, I don't know. Dinosaur Junior? Dinosaur Junior.

Yes. And, College music. That's what I Sam yeah. Sam Sam what is it? Oh, god.

What else? Jawbreaker and all these kind of, like, nineties and sort of bands. I'm trying to think of who else. Like Lifetime and, just some, like, nineties punk music. Darkbuster, which is a band that was around here, in in the nineties, with the bruisers, I just listened to.

Gosh. I don't know. I I just finished a pro a project for the band, The Toadies, which is Okay. Out of Europe. Yeah.

It's kinda depressing because I think we're all starting to look like old men. So I'm starting to realize that there's, like, you know, certain I'm like, it's gonna be, like, I guess, our generation's classic rock is that nineties sort of and I just like it, so I'm just gonna continue listening to it. Because I I I graduated, high school in, in 1996. Okay. So things of that era, I've been listening to for some reason and just, like, thinking back to you.

Is coming up next week. My birthday is coming up next week. Yeah. So My my wife is a bit younger than I am, and she went through the same depressing realization that a lot of the music that she grew up with or went listened to in high school or whatever is now classic. Yeah.

Classic. That was a depressing moment for her. Older music. So for me, it's like You It was old even when I was listening to it. I guess, usually, to answer that question again, mostly, it's like build to spill, pavement, dinosaur junior, Jawbreaker, who else?

Even Nirvana. So stuff like that, I guess. Okay. Yeah. Well, I'd like to really thank you guys for taking the time to do this and being our very first interview.

That's very cool. Thank you. I I really appreciate it. It's a great thing you're doing. And, we're looking in the editing.

We're we are we are looking forward to I only have to do one bleep, so that's good. Oh, yeah. It was it that was a You dropped the f bomb. Supposed to be. Oh, it's okay.

Yeah. He does that. But, yes, I think it's important to, feel awkward and embarrassed for yourself, and we're looking forward to be feeling awkward and embarrassed when we listen to this back. Part of that. A very brave you're a very brave man.

That's nice. Okay. Well, you guys enjoy the snowy day, and Right. We'll Yeah. See you in the interwebs.

We really enjoyed talking to you. So, again, looking forward to talking to you again. Okay. Alright. Success.

We we were able to, get our first interview done. I appreciate very much, Josh and Meredith for, coming on board and giving me a hand with that. And I wanted to thank everybody out there because, one of the things I did when I got up this morning, is I checked the stats for the initial episode for the podcast and, was kinda freaked out to be honest. I had no idea that there would be this much interest in it, especially this early on, but it's it's pretty pretty cool. In addition, I noticed that, iTunes, gave it some prominence in, the noteworthy section.

So pretty stoked. I think, we're off to a good start. And, I'd like to welcome everyone back next week for the episode three, which will be my interview, with Chris and Stu Dobell. The, Dobell brothers are a couple Australian guys, and they're amazingly entertaining. We had a really, really fun time.

So tune in next week. Until then, enjoy yourself. Today's episode of Coffee with a Sound Painter is brought to you by Full City Rooster Coffee Roasters in Dallas, Texas, roasting distinctive coffees from around the world. Sean drinks Full City Rooster coffee every day in the studio. You can order their coffee online at fullcityrooster.com.

Thanks for listening to Coffee with a Signpainter hosted by Sean Starr. You can find all sorts of info about the show and sign painting, including previous episodes at our website, seanstarr.com.