Episode 3: Interview- Sign Painters Chris and Stu Dobell

In this episode, Sean talks with 2nd generation Australian sign painters, the Dobell brothers. Some of the topics are the newcomers to the craft as well as what Chris and Stu think about working in tiny studio spaces. Fun stuff.

Transcription:

Coming to you from Starr Studios in Denison, Texas, this is Coffee with a Signpainter, a weekly podcast hosted by sign painter, Sean Starr, that consists of interviews with other sign painters and some of the customers and characters Sean comes across while running his studio. Alright. Welcome to another episode of Coffee with a Signpainter. Today's episode, I will be, interviewing the DeBell brothers, Chris and Stu DeBell. They're a couple of Australian second generation sign painters, that do some, really spectacular work.

These guys, currently Chris is located in Vancouver, British Columbia, and his brother Stu who was in town, so he went ahead and caught them both at the same time. He is, in from in from Tasmania. So, we had some pretty good conversations with them, and I think you're gonna enjoy it. We get to look at some of their perspective on, where the craft is and where it's going, and, we have a good time. So thanks for tuning in, and, I think you're gonna enjoy this.

We had a really good discussion. So here it is. This is my interview with Chris and Stu DeBell. Today, I have with me the DeBell brothers. Am I pronouncing that right?

DeBell. DeBell. Okay. The DeBell brothers. We've we've had it all.

We've had dumbbell, doorbell. Well, I didn't wanna make the obvious jokes. I left it alone. Oh, there's some good ones there. So so what's you guys' background?

You guys are multi generational sign painters. Right? Yeah. Our dad, Bill, ran a business in Australia for with our mum for, over forty years, in our hometown of Wollongong, New South Wales, which is just about an hour and a bit south of Sydney. Those people that wanna look it up.

Yeah. So we're pretty lucky. Dad was a he was a trade school teacher back in the eighties, also ran his business for, you know, x amount of years. So we were lucky enough to do our apprenticeships through Dobell Science and attend the trade school up in Sydney, which was quite a prestigious school. And lots of, you know, it was a three year apprenticeship course.

You learnt all the rules and regulations of learning how to paint signs. It was, it was cool. You know, you did gold leaf. You did watercolor stuff. You did learning the construction of letters, layout.

Yeah. It was really cool. So we were pretty lucky. We had lots of good tradesmen, that worked with dad, so we got to pick up tips and tricks. And and, yeah.

It was pretty good education. And So what was that environment like? Like, like, you went all day every day? I mean, you know, for for those of us that never went to any kind of a trade school, I think it's kind of intriguing, wondering what that was like. Yeah.

It was one day a week. We would catch the train up to to Sydney, which is about a two hour trip. And, yeah, you would the the day would consist of, you would do drawing in the morning, so construction of letters, different alphabets. Nice. And then, yeah, then you would have your practical work.

And, yeah, it was a so it was a full day. It was, you know, 08:00 till what was it? It was, like, 04:00 or something. Yeah. Eight till four.

And, yeah, different levels of, you know, stage one, two, and three. And then, you spent one year with the with your company, and that that gave you your your apprenticeship. You became a a signwriter or a sign painter, as they call it over here. So did you guys both go through that process? Yeah.

Yeah. We both went through. Chris went through, screen printing as well, didn't you? Yeah. I did two trades.

I did, the sign sign painting or sign writing and the screen printing. So I was pretty lucky that I love the screen printing. Hated the sign writing start off with. Really? I think that anyone that's, is especially for the new guys that are coming into it that is starting to learn, the frustrations with learning to to try and swing a brush and not being able to to master it or or get the hang of it straight away is so frustrating.

And I think my first year in trade school, it was just you just couldn't get it as much as you practice and practice and practice. And I think it was about stage two that I got through there. And, all of a sudden, it just it just clicks. And once you start getting the hang of doing that lettering, it just becomes this crazy addiction that, that all of us know, anyone that's been in the trade long enough. And you just it's you can't describe it to anyone, except for other sign sign guys.

They get it. Yeah. That's just true. So, you're in Chris, you're you're where exactly? Where where do you live and work?

I live in Victoria, BC, which is, on Vancouver Island. It's about, Island. It's about, about an hour and forty five minute ferry ride from the mainland of, Vancouver where the likes of, John Lening or Jay Burn lives over there. So, yeah, I'm pretty much I'm on the island here. We call it The Rock.

Okay. Which is about two hours ferry ride away from Seattle. Okay. So to give you a bit of a geography there. There's only myself and, another British guy, Chris, in here in town that still do the the old school stuff, and another guy by the name of Abby Aspen, who's up a little bit further up Ireland.

So there's not too many of us around town that are still swinging a brush. Okay. And then, Stu, you're from you're still in Australia? Yep. I'm from Tassie.

Well, from Wollongong originally, but moved to Tassie about four years ago, Tasmania. Been down there doing the sign writing. Had my own little business down there, and, yeah. Just same thing. Just slinging the slinging the brush day by day.

And so you're in BC right now with Chris while we're talking. Are you just up there for a a visit? Are you working on stuff with him or both? No. Just on holidays at the moment.

Yeah. Up here visiting my girlfriend and Chris. So, yeah. Trying to spend a bit of time with these guys and take a bit of a break. It was pretty hectic this year this year or last year.

So it's good to, just take a break away from it a little bit and get some fresh ideas and some new, new scope on, you know, stuff. Gotcha. So, why don't you talk a little bit about what it's like in Australia as far as the, you know, sign painting things that you're seeing down there? I know there's a resurgence. There's pockets of resurgence all over, especially since the sign painter movie came out.

So what are you seeing down there, and, what's your your take on it? Yeah. As you said, we we are seeing pockets of new sign writers coming out. I don't know if that's for a good thing or for a bad thing. I've what I've personally seen is there are a lot of new generation sign writers coming out, not be able to get taught by, you know, a proper sign writer or do the schooling because a lot of the schooling's shut starting to shut down in Australia now.

So it's harder for them to find, you know, somewhere to go or can't do the travel to get there. So they're learning off internet. They're learning off books. They're learning from other sign writing tips and tricks like the movie and, you know, just picking up pieces as they go along. And what I've found now is some of those guys, who are calling themselves sign writers, are teaching other people to become sign writers now, which, it's a hard subject to touch on, I guess.

To to me, I don't think it's right, but, you know, I think they should be learn how to do it the proper way before they can, you know, go out and teach somebody else to do Yeah. It's that whole you've gotta learn the rules to break the rules thing. You know, I I see this, like, you know, hipster style that's emerged in the last couple years where everything is just so crudely done. And You know as a style. It's not necessarily a terrible thing for it to look hand done, but some of it's just horrible You said it sure not not us.

Hey, hey, man. I I get myself in trouble all the time. I'm okay with it. But, you know, I just I are you seeing the same thing down there? Is that what you're describing?

Yeah. We're seeing a bit of that. I'm seeing it everywhere. Yeah. We're seeing that.

I mean, I guess it's hard for those guys because they don't know where to go to school or they haven't had proper schooling. You know, they're coming from graffiti backgrounds or graphic design backgrounds, and then bringing their own elements into it, which I think is great because it's pushing it into a different era. But also, I think you need to learn the old school ways, the the technical traditional skills as well before you can go off and start teaching, well, you know, what what you're doing. Yeah. Yeah.

I guess we're seeing a lot of these workshops popping up around now, and, I think that's probably what Stu's talking about. There's a lot of workshops coming through Australia, likes of Maya, Mike Maya, going around teaching, Pierre Tartuff. We're seeing seeing them pop up everywhere. And what Stu and I have been talking about is how much do you really learn in one weekend workshop? Right.

Does that give you enough credit to go off and teach somebody else? So that's that's kind of what we've been talking about. That's where some of us all the guys that have been in it for a while have had to put in the hard yards. Yeah. And that I think that's the the big issue for me is, you know, like, working with my dad, you know, I swept floors and did all the crappy grunt work for three years before I touched any paint on anything, you know.

And, you know, that kind of old school approach, I mean, that's kind of horrifying to go through when you're younger, you know, because it just it sucks and it's, you know, but it it also it it, like, sets your brain to respect the process and respect the traditions and all of that. And I and I'm seeing now, this is a kind of a pet peeve of mine is, you know, there's people posting stuff on Instagram and Facebook that, you know, back in the day, I would have never posted, you know we we didn't even take pictures of 98% of what we did because it was either crappy or boring or, you know, occasionally you take a picture because it's like, okay. This is something I'd I'd be willing to show somebody. But now everybody's just, you know, and their main concern is how many likes they get on something, not whether it's good or not. Yeah.

Yeah. I think if, if dad saw some of the stuff that we were doing now, he would, he'd probably kick us off the bum for doing them the way we Why why is that? What do you mean? Well, he was very meticulous, I guess. He he his boss, Harry Templeton, was an old school guy that was very, very formal, and, you know, they it was a different time period.

You know, things were done differently, and it was done correctly and and with certain techniques. And, you know, that's just the way that you did did it. So I guess dad passed those on to us. So if we were gonna, you know, prepare the job, it was, you know, pair of plywood. You had to sand it, then you had to prime it, you know, two coats of primer, and then, you know, two coats of this.

And then, like, now, you know, I'm using so many untraditional techniques that to produce myself. See, that's one of the things that I admire about your work the most is that you're always experimenting. So, like, how did you go from being trained by your dad who is very, like, strict and traditional? Is it just rebellion, or are you just a punk, or what is it? Well, when you and I first moved over here, which was 02/2006, dad had shut down the business.

He sort of pretty much retired. And, we have another brother, Matty, too that was, used to work with us, and, he was screen printing. And the three boys were trying to run the the business, and we it was it was pretty frustrating and and hard in our hometown because we wanted to still keep some of those traditional things alive, but it had really turned into a digital market. And, everyone was competing against each other just for that, you know, square footage of material. Right.

So Stew had already been to Canada before and and been to Victoria, so we thought, you know what? We'll just we'll take the brushes with us, see how things go. And Victoria's a it's a beautiful town and a very artsy town, so I think that the community here appreciated still the the hand elements. And there was a lot of guys here before me that, and, you know, funny enough, an Aussie guy by the name of Graham Sanders that did some beautiful work here from Victoria's Island Years ago. So we were lucky enough to meet some some young guys, a Nellis and, Colby Spence, who ran a a business called Insight Screen Printing.

And having a screen printing background, I was managed I managed to be able to convince those guys that I could, you know, print some T shirts for them. And in return, we would, have a few beers and a few laughs, and and they got bigger. And as they got bigger, they sort of took Stu and I along for the ride. So we worked out of this tiny little space at the back of their shop. So we went from having a huge big workshop that dad ran to a tiny space.

So when you get into a tiny space, you realize you can only work a certain amount of things. So, you gotta start adapting. So for those young guys that are listening that are probably working out of the spare bedroom at home or their kitchen or something, they'll know exactly what we're talking about. Mhmm. You gotta work with what you got there.

So Mother of invention. Yeah. So you start looking for the quick fix of, how can I especially in the, we're not in the very cold part of Canada, but I'm sure, you know, cold parts of The States or, or Canada up here, you've gotta look for those things? So spray cans became, you know, a big thing for us to try and use on backgrounds. So we're starting to use spray cans.

We're starting to, you know, get into more of the water based paints where we could heat heat gun things and dry things fast. So, yeah, we, I guess, we just learned to to adapt. And as we learned to adapt, we met the local graffiti guys and, and sort of started picking up on a lot of that sort of style, which has influenced both of our work, I think. And, yeah, we just sort of started trying to do things as quick as we could possibly do do them. I think that was how we got into that situation.

Yeah. Turn turnaround's important, especially, you know, I I'm I've been watching, like, with with I don't really understand your situation now with the brewery. What you you do a lot of work with a specific brewery. What is that? Yeah.

So, I guess, probably been working for Phillips Brewing Company now. Matt Phillips is, he's a genius. He's a very smart guy. He's only 40 years old. He started a a brewery on a bunch of credit cards and and he's built it into an empire now.

He's a graphic design. That sorry. Graphic designer that works for him. His name is Sean O'Keefe, and, he's a good friend of ours, and he's an amazing designer. And he saw the potential in Stu and I years ago, and he also had a bit of a soft spot for typography and and sign painting.

And so we all became friends, and Sean sort of pushed Matt into eventually giving us a meeting. In that meeting, we had a few beers, and we showed him what we did back home, and I think that got the ball rolling. So, one sign led to another, which led to me now working, at the brewery, full time. So I would say 85% of my work is is brewery related work, sandwich boards, menu boards. You know what?

And is your studio there at the brewery? Yeah. I, I work out of a shipping container, which is pretty funny. You you and Bob Dewhurst. I don't I don't know if you know who he is, the the guy in San Diego.

Yeah. Yeah. I think this place is a little bit messier than mine, though. Oh, yes. Very good.

But I I share the spot with, with another guy by the name of Russ Papp, who's another another great guy, and, we've all become pretty good friends. So there's there's sort of three of us there that that are, running the the arts department at at Phillips. And it's, it's not a not your average brewery. It's where a lot of breweries would be just mass producing, you know, digital prints. We're actually, you know, reusing, you know, the crates that come in from shipping, and and we're turning those into signs where, you know, they reuse, recycle, creating things that are different.

As we talked about, you know, experimenting with different ideas, Sean is fantastic to to do that. He has a bit of a graffiti background as well as his graphic design background. So, you know, we're we're always playing around and having a few beers in the studio, and and what if we added this to this? What would happen? What would be the reaction?

And, we've been lucky enough. We've come up with some pretty crazy techniques, which are very untraditional, and I think that's what upsets a lot of the old traditional guys that have been set in their ways. Yeah. And that's what I would talk about in my in the first podcast. The first episode was just that mindset of you can't do it this way.

You know? Or you you gotta do it this other way, or you can't go that direction. So how how do you how do you obviously, you view that the same way I do because you're just doing whatever you wanna do. But Yeah. Well, I think Stu and I would we you realize that, to set yourself apart from from any from anyone else out there, you've gotta be doing something different.

And, or else your signs just become mainstream and boring like a lot of the digital stuff that we see. My dad used to say to us years ago that you could you go around the town wherever you went to, and you could tell the sign painters or the sign writers work because he had a certain poster style or a certain style. He and my dad would refer to refer to it as flair. He said, you know, these guys would have you know, you could tell this guy's work had so much flair to or character to it. So I think Stew and I have always thought about that too.

Like, we we've always wanted our work to stand out, so we're always, you know, looking at other people's stuff but also trying to experiment with crazy techniques. And, you know, we're sure we have our sign idols that we that we probably rip off some of their stuff, but I think that they would probably rip off stuff from us too. I rip off stuff from you guys all the time. So Oh, thanks. That's good.

No upset. But, yeah, it's For the people, that aren't completely familiar with what you guys do, I wanna point out something too. Like, there's there's, like, sign painters, sign painters. You know? There's, like, the guys that all of us look to and say, okay.

That's the real deal. And that's that's how I and a lot of others view both of you guys. You know? There there are very, very few people that I have ever come across in in the craft that can take a Stabilo pencil and walk up to something, sketch something, and the final, you know, piece when it's done is amazing. And, you know, that's you guys.

Yeah. I think and that that comes with that. Makes you feel uncomfortable. Yeah. Well, I guess, it just comes with it it takes a long time to get to that stage, Sean, as you know.

You know? It's and and trying to explain to the young guys today, it's you you just gotta want it. You gotta want to do that. You only get out of it what you put into it, and it's like anything. So it's, you just gotta put the time in, and and hopefully that whatever's going on in your brain and and, what what you've got in your mind there ready to go transfers over to the the sign.

Yeah. I one of my, most envied items, in the whole world of sign painting is actually belongs to you guys or to Stu, and that's your shop truck. Yeah. That's a decent thing. I don't know what it would take to steal that and ship it to The United States, but I'm working on a plan.

Yeah. Well, probably about 15 or $20 you can take. Yeah. I think that's truck. Yeah.

And and we're seeing a lot of those things coming back now. Like, you see, you know, our Canadian, Pierre there. He's, you know, he's always working on these beautiful old trucks, and Mhmm. If Mike's trucks down in Minnesota there. It's I think it's something that goes along with our trade.

It's sort of that appreciation for the things that were built and made back in those days are just beautiful, and we've lost all that because we've gone come into this new, as you mentioned in the first issue, that that cookie cutter, everyone wants it done now fast, fast, fast. Things back in the day would you know, they're just done with more appreciation and then love, I think. Yeah. We're we're in this old train station now. We've got our studio in this train station that was built in the late eighteen hundreds, and, you know, there's no way anyone would even attempt making this now.

Yeah. Yeah. So it it's, it's a pretty neat thing to be in and neat environment. Yeah. We've got all that sort of stuff too, the old old school stuff.

So Well, we were Chris and I looked at an old school, mirror the other day. Yeah. And it was just perfect. And, you know, it looked like it had been Yeah. Screen printed.

Because it was just and, I think Chris asked Yeah. I sent the picture through to Dave Smith, and I think most of the guys listening would probably know who that guy is. And If they don't, they haven't been paying attention. No. That's that's for sure.

I mean, you talk about sign painting, and then there's that's just another level altogether. So, yeah, I sent the pictures of Dave, and he thought it was early nineteen hundreds and it had been shipped over from, The UK. And it sits in one of our local pubs here in Victoria. But as you and I looked at it, I said, take a look at this thing. It is it's just it's way too perfect.

We But it was all hand done. And the techniques from those time periods and the guys that were working on it, that that was just run of the mill stuff for them back in the day. Well, he said, don't you know, like, how long would it have taken someone to do that actual process? And we said, well, I guess back then, you had teams of guys working on one project at a time, not just the one guy over and over again. But also, they would have had a lot more time, I guess, back in those days.

They probably, you know, said, here you go. We want this mirror in six months, not tomorrow. Right. So I guess they did have the time to spend on it, whereas today, I guess Chris finds it harder and harder to to manage time because people, you know, they want it yesterday. Yeah.

We have, we have, I think, nine beer reps at the brewery now that are, for me, very fortunate. They, they're out there selling my work. So, but our clients want them pretty quick, so, yeah, you you as we call it, it's banging this Wednesday kind of a thing? Yeah. We're we're banging stuff out, so I don't think anyone knows that I'm hiding up here today instead of being at work.

They won't find out till too late. But, yeah. It's it's it's also a very rewarding job too, you know. It's, we're pretty lucky that we get to go to work and enjoy something. I mean, it's a love hate relationship.

You get to do something that's pretty unique compared to sitting behind a computer or or punching the clock or something. You know, we're doing something different every day. It's just it's pretty awesome. And then you get to see your stuff around town, and you you can change a a town. And you've proven that yourself.

You from going to town to town to town, you're just, you know Yeah. Making your mark across I I think that's just a sign of instability. I don't know what You just can't stay in one spot, Sean. Maybe so. Well, you paint that whole town, and then you gotta move on to the next one.

Well, yeah. There's nothing left to do. Act actually, I think we've we've just been continually migrating towards less chaos. You know? Yeah.

We we we went down to Denton, which is about an hour south of us, and that was, that's a really cool town with lots of music and lots of art and everything, but it's also kinda in that boom phase right now. So it's just a little too fast paced. Maybe I'm getting old. I don't know. Yeah.

I think we all are. So what's on the horizon for you guys? Like, what what, you guys have any ambitious plans or cool things happening? I think we'd like to get the the team back together here because it's been a while since we've actually worked together. And Stu and I both have different skill sets, so it was, it kind of worked out well.

Stu's a lot better at the pictorial work and drawing skills, and I really had to work on my lettering skills. I was probably more of the, out there selling it, and Stu was doing all the hard work all the time. So so when yeah. I had to start doing some hard work for a change, and I guess Stu had to start working on on some of his stuff too. So yeah.

So we work well together as a team. And if if things, you know, pan out and Stu can either come here and and we can get the the old team back together, that'd be good. But if not, you know, we're lucky in today's society where we can do things like what we're doing now, the Skype stuff, and swap ideas and things like that. Yeah. But we've we've been talking about doing some more just playing around with different different gold techniques and and and, you know, screen printing up panels and and things that are just different that we can or that I can offer to Philips and to our clientele, the the pub industry and restaurant industry here in Victoria.

That sets our work aside from a boring digital print that comes from China or Yeah. Or the local fast signs guy that really just doesn't care. Yeah. All they care about is the money side of things. For us, it's not it's never really been about money.

Sure it helps because it pays your bills and it puts gas in the car. But, when you think when you have a passion for it like Stu and I and yourself do, you know, sometimes you'll go above and beyond on a sign even though you might only have $200 to spend on it. You'll you'll throw $600 into it Yeah. Because you you want it to be look good. And, I guess that's when you learn how to start getting fast at some of the styles that you do and fashion them out.

Yeah. Yeah. That's true. So how does it work? Like, you guys are are Australian.

Yeah. Are there any barriers to coming to Canada and working, or is it because it's all under the same umbrella as The UK or I don't even know. Is that correct? I mean, how does that work? We're all Commonwealth countries.

So, like, Canada and Australia, Commonwealth countries. When I Stu and I came over here in 2,006, we had well, Stu had work visa. I was on a holiday visa because I we really just didn't know what we were gonna do. And I'd met Stu introduced me to my now wife, Cass, and I was lucky enough through her, she was able to sponsor me, to stay here. So I was allowed to do do that, and I became a permanent resident of Canada.

So they're, like, paperwork rigamarole just like if I were to go up there. Lots of paperwork, lots of money, involved in doing it. And then, late December last year, I wrote my citizenship test, and now I'm officially a citizen of Canada, so which gives me the dual pass passports and stuff there too. I mean, I'm always gonna be an Aussie at heart, but it just so happens that Victoria is a town that I can continue the craft on as where Australia is lacking a little bit in the seam. We're only just starting to see it sort of come back a little bit there now.

So, yeah. So it's a little bit of a a process to go through. So if she was to come back, he'd have to go through the same sort of things. We've been talking with immigration lawyers and things like that. So we'll see what happens.

Yeah. I've I've talked to, John Lennig about this, a few different times. I think you guys have access to, like, different materials and and equipment than than we do down here. Do you have trouble finding paint and all that up there, or is it, like, off the shelf stuff? What are you using?

Oh, that's funny. So, yeah, there's pretty much nothing in this town. There's no sign supply shop. There's a couple of places that you can buy, you know, like your local hardware store, sort of the Home Depot type situation, you can buy plywood from. There is a couple of big sign supply shops, but they're out East Of Canada there.

And then there's a little hobby store here that sells one shot lettering paints. It's also it's also a bit of an automotive place as well. So you get the small little tins of one shot if you're looking for enamel that are ridiculously overpriced? John's probably a bit more fortunate than than what I am because he has he's in the big smoke of Vancouver there, so they've got a few science supply shops over there. But, yeah, we're we're pretty limited to what we could get as far as paints compared to The States.

So are you just using, like, off the shelf enamels from, like, hardware stores or what? No. I'll use one shot. So I've finally got onto a through another fellow Canadian guy who's a champion, Rick Jensen out in Alberta there. He's got me onto a a guy that, he buys some Ronin's from that might be able to get me some aquacote and things like that.

But, usually, when I make a trip to The States, I kinda load up. Yeah. That would have happened. But, yeah, we can get one shot here. We can, I mean, a lot of the the water based paints that I use now are are pretty good?

You know? The the likes of the Sherwin Williams and General Paint and things like that, they're, you can get away with them. And if they last on the house for fifteen years, they gotta be good enough for a sign. Yeah. We we use that on all of our exterior wall work that I have for years.

I just use exterior, house paint because it Yeah. It's made to last. Yeah. I mean, it's like a plastic enamel now, so it's, I mean, it it doesn't cover as good as some of the we have some really good brands in Australia that we that we grew up using, and we got used to working with them because they covered so well. But, yeah, you come over here, you you work out which ones are the water based, really watery, and which ones are What about you, Stu?

Down down in Australia, do you have pretty good access to material? They do, on the mainland because I'm in the same situation as Korea's been on a On an island. In Tasmanian. In an island that's, you know, twelve hours away from anybody. I have to ship my stuff over from Melbourne.

So for one shots, I've gotta gotta pre order them from, place in Melbourne, and they send them over. But I use a lot of the water based house paints as well, like Chris does, just for a lot of indoor work. I don't use it. I use a little bit for outdoor work, but mainly for menu boards and for signs that I know that are gonna go indoors and don't have to be treated, for the weather. But, yeah, it's quite hard for me.

I can't get any brushes down there, so I have to order them usually from The States or I get them from Chris. We do an order together, and then he sends them down to me. Because, yeah, in Tasmania, no one supplies paintbrushes in sign writing, all the paints. They just discontinued the last batch of, what they called, silver paint down there, which was which was made for sign writing. And they don't even stock that anymore.

So for me, for enamels, it's yeah. Go to go to Melbourne for one shot. Which you're paying ridiculous prices on because it's getting shipped over from The States. Yeah. It's getting shipped from The States and then it's getting shipped over to me.

So, you know, sometimes for, a half or a quart, you know, you could be paying up to $60 just for a little, you know, quarter to quarter to quarter to. Basically, I was like, oh, what? Yeah. You know? But you've just gotta add that into your job.

You know? Yeah. Well, fortunately, you know, if you're using lettering enamel for lettering, it goes pretty long ways. Yeah. The backgrounds and stuff, that would kill you.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Big time. I mean, I find four backgrounds now.

A lot of people just bring me the background supplied already, whether it be, a metal based material, what we call color bond. So they use it for roofing down here, and a lot of it's pre colored already. Or, you know, that they they just get they get it done by somebody else, and they bring it to me already done, and then I paint it up. So but I find I've been using a lot of wood, just for that purpose. I can do the backgrounds in water based to house paint materials, and then I need to put a clear coat over it, and that seems to last just as long.

So Yeah. I use a lot of, water based clear coats now. Just just to just that added insurance of an extra coat over the top, you know. The the weather conditions up here are a little bit different. Everything's especially the winter times, everything's wet and damp.

So it just it takes its toll on the on your signage if it's outside. Sandwich boards get beaten around. So you having that water base, you know, it's easy to to touch them up if they do get busted up. Right. Well, I I have a a mandatory question I've started, for all the interviews that requires complete honesty.

Don't paint signs, kids. There's no money in it. That's right. I have never met a sign painter that, well, for one, didn't like a a beer. But, but I never met a sign painter that that didn't work, to music.

So you guys have to each tell me, like, what's on your iPod, and even if it's guilty pleasure, you gotta admit what it is. So you go first, Stu. I think I think Stu's probably Miley Cyrus or something on your Stu and I are pretty lucky, actually. We've both played in in bands for for years, and I've I've really noticed that with the sign sign community. That artistic side of things, they're either sign guys are either really talented musicians, or very religious or very alcoholic, one of the two.

Or all three. Yeah. So it's, but yeah. I like all sorts of stuff. We have our our Aussie bands that we still love.

But right now, I'm Like who like who would that be? Would any of us know? No. Probably not. Oh, I mean, ACDC.

That's what I'm saying. ACDC. I listen to, anything from sort of the hardcore, screamo sort of stuff Okay. All the way through to good old folk. I'd probably say my my one of my favorite artists is a a guy by the name of Butch Walker.

He's been around for a long time. So, yeah, I I he gets a a fair few hits throughout the day for me, and then, yeah, if you need that energy to get through the the afternoon, it's, it's good with the heavy stuff all the way. Okay. Alright. And what about you, Stu?

The angry music. I've been going through a a nineties phase at the moment. Listen to all the nineties sort of, grunge, I guess, bands, like, Nirvana, Pearl Jam, all those yeah. Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, all those kind of nineties bands that were big back then. But, yeah, I also like, my punk music and, been getting into sort of a bit more sort of, I guess, gypsy sort of folk kind of music, like a folk punk, I guess they call it, gypsy punk.

Like, like Gogol Bardello? Or Yeah. Like Gogol Bardello. Yeah. Cool.

And bands like that. They've still got that kind of, I guess, punk esque, relation to it for me. And I also like, bands like City in Color, which are big big here. And then, yeah, more sort of heavier heavier rock bands. Okay.

Neither of you are giving me an embarrassing guilty pleasure band. Come on. Like Chris Chris does Chris does like, Nana Muscuri. Oh, Nana Muscuri. No.

I don't know if we hear that. I haven't really listened to any we've never been mainstream kind of guys. I think that's a commonality. You know? Yeah.

I I see that with everybody in in this craft is always digging for, like, the little nuggets under the mainstream. Yeah. Like, we we always go out. We as I said, we played in bands for years. We're pretty lucky.

We it could have been our career path at one stage. But he shows this instead. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, actually, it We can judge us. There's, there's no way of getting out of this, and that's what I I tell people. Once you get started in this game It's like the mafia. Yeah. It's, it's just an it's a crazy addiction.

It's you're always striving to become better and learn something new, and you'll you'll see somebody else do something new thing. And that's what I love about going to these meets and meeting other people. And as you talked about in that first issue there, talking with, with other sign paper. I mean, there's there's no secrets out there anymore. You know?

I mean, you can find everything you wanna find on the Internet. Yeah. And my dad is pretty funny. He's like, don't tell him anything, son. Don't tell him anything.

Let make him learn the hard way. And that's probably that old school mentality, but I I might as well you know, I just share it with everyone. I don't care. Yeah. Yeah.

And, you know, the the way that I I it it first, you know, probably seven, eight years ago when when they were starting to get momentum culturally for sign painting again, I was a little bit guarded. But once you really think about it, it's like unless somebody invests the massive amount of hours Yeah. It's not gonna matter anyway. They're not even gonna know what you're talking about half the time. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I mean, good luck to them if they can, you know, can do that and pull it off. But as you as you know and we all know, it takes years of practice and, you know, a lot of paint. And if you're into alcohol, a lot of alcohol as well. Yeah.

Actually, I I go over and and visit, John over on the Mainland there. There's a there's a few of us that get together over there. We're trying to get together at least once a year. And, we we hung out for for John's Jayburn, the listeners listening to and he's a character of the industry. Fifty years he's been Oh, yeah.

Fifty years of of lettering. You can't beat that knowledge. No. And it's like it's like hanging out with my dad. You know, the stories and Johnny used to like a beer back in the day.

He doesn't drink anymore. Same with another guy, Cal Trotter, and there's a few of us that are and we just get together, and we we talk about those techniques, and we paint signs and drink coffee and and listen to Johnny's crap music. So when you interview him, he'll tell you all the crap music that he's listened to. I'll definitely dig into that story when I get there. But, yeah, and we talk about, you know, some of the amazing artists that are coming through the ranks, you know, guys like Will Lyons in down in Australia, fantastic, Josh, Luke, you know, guys that are start and they're the ones that are gonna continue on and keep the craft alive because, eventually, we're gonna drop dead from our either cirrhosis of the liver or or Pete Fuse, one of the two.

Yeah. Probably does. But, yeah, but it's it's a fun fun trade. You know? I guess I love it.

You know? I'm by no means a rich man, but it definitely, you know, had it pays the bills and puts food on the table. And Wealth wealth is measured by more things than just money. So Yeah. Yep.

And, yeah, that satisfaction of doing a nice job sometimes is, more rewarding than actually getting paid. Yep. Yeah. It's so lovely. Well, this was good.

I I think this, we had a good discussion, and I really appreciate you guys doing it. And, hopefully, I don't botch it too bad in the editing. And when it goes out there, it's doesn't sound completely horrible. Where do we send the invoice to? I'll get back with you on that.

Alright, guys. Well, enjoy your rest of the day. Hopefully, you could play hooky and get out of the rest of it. Yeah. I've been nice to hang out with you and, our latest issue of Sonic Craft showed up.

So we might take a look through that and see how much digital and dimensional signage we can look at. I got issues with that, but I'm not touching on the roof. For us, this is, it's almost 80 degrees. It's gonna be 80 degrees today, sunny. Oh, nice.

We had gray, nasty weather, so I've got my motorcycle out there, and I'm gonna enjoy my afternoon. Well, yeah. Thanks for, thanks for taking the time to chat with us, Sean. It's good. I hope that, this becomes successful.

I think it will. Hey. It's, it'll be what it'll be. I'm just happy to do it. Yeah.

Cool. Alright. Alright. Look forward to listening to it, and, yeah, all the best. Alright.

And and and thanks for, for no blatant profanity. I appreciate that. No problem. We'll sage it all up just for after this. Today's episode of Coffee with a SignPainter is brought to you by Full City Rooster Coffee Roasters in Dallas, Texas.

Roasting distinctive coffees from around the world, Sean drinks Full City Rooster coffee every day in the studio. You can order their coffee online at fullcityrooster.com. Thanks for Thanks for listening to Coffee with a Signpainter, hosted by Sean Starr. You can find all sorts of info about the show and sign painting, including previous episodes at our website, seanstarr.com.