Interview: San Francisco Sign Painter Bob Dewhurst

Sean and Bob talk about the cost of living and doing business in San Francisco, living in cars and Airstream trailers, hippies and the new 1 Shot paint formula.

More info on Bob: ⁠http://www.signlanguagesf.com/

Transcription:

Coming to you from Starr Studios in Denison, Texas, this is Coffee with a Signpainter, a weekly podcast hosted by sign painter, Sean Starr, that consists of interviews with other sign painters and some of the customers and characters Sean comes across while running his studio. Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Coffee with a SignPainter. Today, I get to talk with an old friend of mine, somebody that, really have a lot of affection for. This is Bob Dewhurst, San Francisco sign painter extraordinaire.

Bob, just to give you a little background. Bob has been painting signs in San Francisco since the late seventies. He's kind of a fixture there. And, in this episode, we talk about everything from, living in cars, living in trailers, hippies, and, you name it, music, all sorts of good stuff. So, let's go ahead and and we're gonna jump right in talking to Bob.

Where we come into with the interview is, discussion that, seems to come up frequently when I talk to anyone regarding San Francisco, and that is the astronomical cost of living. And, so that's kind of peppered throughout the conversation is, some of those issues as well as some of Bob's issues, regarding, some of the regulatory things of doing business in California and in the city there. But, let's just jump in. Cause it's, it's a really good fun conversation. For those of you that know Bob, you'll get a kick out of it because he's very Bob in this, interview.

So, without much further ado, here we go. Let's, let's meet Bob Dewhurst. Yeah. I I I followed some of the different, like, news things on cost of living and all that, and it just sounds like it's getting crazier and crazier out there. It's getting crazier and and, you know, I was in for a surprise yesterday.

Now they have a a new kind of parking meter where a quarter gets you three minutes. Oh my god. Three minutes. Yeah. I I I remember multiple times, you know, at we just had our motorcycle, and so that was easy, because then that was 10¢ an hour, I think, at the time, on the meter.

Sure. But, once we got our crappy van, you know, you'd drop $20 easy if you had a job down on Market Street or something to do. Oh, sure. Yeah. Yeah.

But, yeah, man. We're digging it out here. We're just, you know, we're we're kind of in a small town now and just trying to live at a halfway sane pace. Mhmm. Kaylee and I bought a Air stream last year, so we moved into that.

You did? Yeah. Slipping like hippies, man. That's right. Well, how big of an air stream?

25 foot. Oh, man. Yeah. We're digging it. We've we've been in there for, let's see, maybe eight, nine months now?

Yeah. Yeah. We like it. I I don't think we'll probably ever go back to Isn't that something? It's something about, sign painters and trailers.

Yeah. You know, I don't know what you know? Yeah. Do you still have your, compound down there in San Francisco with other men? Twenty five years now.

Yeah? That's awesome. Twenty yeah. Twenty five years. Mhmm.

Wow. That's awesome. I've been watching a couple of the podcasts so far. Uh-huh. But I can only watch them over here because my my thing, it eats up bites.

You know what I mean? It's so expensive. Yeah. Yeah. So Okay.

Well, good. Yeah. Very very cool. So why don't you, why don't you tell me what you've been up to? I mean, it's been, let's see, I think I left San Francisco I what was that?

Was that like 2009 or '10? It was, wasn't it after the sign painter movie came out? No, because they came and shot us and Big Bear. Oh. Oh.

So it was you had called me and said, hey dude, where you at? Because they're here filming. Right, that's right. And I was like, we just moved like three weeks ago, what are you talking about? That, I didn't know you moved right away, that's right, Yeah, yeah.

So it was back around nine or ten? Yeah, Yeah. Something like that. Well, let What have you been up to since then? What have you been well, you know, I I got my contractor's license after thirty odd years.

Wow. That's big. Thirty five years. Well, yeah. I mean, I didn't even know there was such a thing.

And, but, it it started people it just the world closed in on me as far as not having one. And, so, you know, I got it. It almost broke my brain. I hadn't taken a test in forty years, but, I passed it. A lot of people don't.

You know, it's a bunch of crap that has nothing to do with my my normal way of doing science, but, so I got that, and I got bonded and all all this. So, basically, I stepped up a level. You you went from hippie to mainstream. What's up? Oh, I'm trying to stay alive, you know?

No. I get it. Yeah, I had to do the same thing. We went through the whole deal with bonding and everything. Yeah.

You know, that was a definite plus when we relocated out of California was, you know, most states don't require all of that, especially for something like sign painting. Sure, sure. I can understand if you're putting some, you know, 1,500 pound metal backlit sign and electrical to it, and you know, sure, make those guys have all their ducks in a row. But if you're just painting something, I don't get it. I well, it's money for them.

But, Yeah. There you go. Anyway, but what what's cool, you know, a lot of these larger corporations who I don't really like working for, but jobs have been coming to me that way. Yeah. And, that's their requirement, your your number, man.

So I you can't even do business with them. So, we got onto some good work. I've been working with old Mike Menzel. He's, been painting for, like, forty years. Nice nice hand stuff.

You know? Okay. But, we do wall work together for, like, twenty years. Okay. We we know the ropes.

We always work together because we know how to work. You know? So I had to hire him as an employee. It's such a headache, Sean. I'm just Oh my god.

Like, you wouldn't you wouldn't believe. You have workman's comp base fee, workman's comp percentage fee. I had to hire an accountant to do the payroll. It's, like, four times a year to three agencies, all this BS. Oh my goodness.

You're not an employee. You know? You're always trying to tell me what to do. And, so but, anyway, we got some good jobs. We got to do a 13 story building off of Market Street with, of it was like a murmuration of flying birds.

Okay. Like, where's, certain kinds of birds, you see in them, they go up like a spiral. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So that was a good job. And then the same corporation, we we've been getting some good stuff. We did a ghost sign, last summer, a double wall up on equipment. You know, we set up our own stuff, and now we're doing some more stuff. We're doing a cool thing for a shopping center, which is like hopefully, it's gonna turn into a whole theme where we're we're doing a couple that's like vintage postcards and stuff.

Oh, awesome. 20 feet tall, you know. Yeah. Very cool. Loving it.

Yeah. Yeah. No. That's good stuff. Uh-huh.

Well, it looks like getting the, the paperwork stuff in order probably probably paid off, you know. Yeah. You know, it's a changing world, man. I I wish I I don't know. I wish sometimes, like, it was back to just shake my hand and give me some money and, you know, it's Yeah.

Those days are gone. Way gone. Yeah. Yep. So I I was curious, you know, you're you're in the the movie sign painters as well.

Mhmm. Has that has that changed anything for you? Well, you know, it was so ironic. I I'm in that by accident. I'm and and there's so many people like yourself, I mean, just beyond my talent level to an extent, where I told them, I said, I shouldn't even be in this book.

They said, look, Bob. They said, the the book and the movie, we're not trying to say who's the greatest sign painter. It's a it's a character sketch about people who are sign painters. So I said, okay. Cool.

You know? But, it was a tremendous shot in the arm for me because, you know, that was right right when you were moving out of San Francisco. It's just getting real hard, and I was doubting my own profession and I was at a low level and, the they came to shoot the film the very day after the after twenty five years of living next to the fire department, they finally showed up and it was really ugly. Oh, yeah. They they were gonna shut me down because of my storage system, and Uh-huh.

He he, you know, he made me disconnect my electric. Really? Yeah. Which was, as it turned out, his mistake. It it wasn't illegal.

But I for six weeks, I was shoveling ice into a you know, from the produce terminal, they dumped the broccoli out. I was shoveling ice into a cooler to keep my food, living at night by a lantern. But I kinda liked it because I'd lived without electricity and water before. I said, well, I'm gonna beat these guys out. But Uh-huh.

That's when they came in and shot the film. And suddenly, I was feeling like, wow. Some pride in what I do. And, yeah, I got some attention, not so much from clients, but from other sign painters. Yeah.

And I I hooked up on Facebook with all these sign painter, people. So, yeah, it's been it's been really helped me a whole lot. Very cool. Yeah. And you and I have both been in a lot of the same, gallery shows Mhmm.

Over the last couple years. We even swapped a piece. I traded you my stinking hippie piece for the, the blue sign you did. You still got it there? Yes, sir.

I do. It's hanging up right over here. I got stinking hippie right. I'm gonna put it on my door one of these days. Awesome.

Awesome. A little background on that, and I think I told you this at the time. You know, I grew up in South Texas, and I was like a really weird kid because, like, in the nineteen eighties, when everybody was listening to, like, you know, Oh Mickey and all this cheesy 80s pop music, all I was listening to was Bob Dylan, Neil Young, a huge Neil Young fan. I got, Morrissey, right? Morrissey came later.

Oh, okay. But, you know, from the time I was probably 11 years old to maybe 14, 15 years old, all I was listening to was all this old hippie music. It's funny, I was telling my brother this a while back, he was horrified because I'd kept this a secret, but, the record, which was a cassette, but the record I ever owned, it was a Grateful Dead live cassette that I stole from Albertsons, supermarket when they were Oh, good, I used to work for Albertsons. They deserve to get rid of it. Stuck it to the man for you.

But, yeah, it was, you know, all of my friends were horrified, because, you know, they were all, you know, everything nineteen seventies and sixties, by the time the eighties rolled around was considered like, you know, that stuff sucks, you know? Disco sucks, do you remember that big movement and everything, you know, the seventies were very, much looked down on. But to me it made sense, you know, when I started coming across, you know, Morrissey and The Smiths and The Clash and all this stuff, to me, it seemed seamless to go from Neil Young and Dylan Oh, sure. To those guys, but nobody else got it. It's a tough life, you know?

Yeah. They always persecute the artist. Yeah. They say it some way or another. But the background on the stinking hippie thing, is that I you know, down in South Texas back in the, you know, early eighties, like anything that was even slightly not, you know, mainstream, all the rednecks would just say, oh, that's a stinking hippie.

Uh-huh. So I made that piece and then that was so cool that we were able to swap because, you know, like you're like my hippie doppelganger guy. So Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, they ran us out of town in, Nevada when we we when we were hippies, whatever, you know, and get stuck in around.

They they just about we we ran for our lives, right? You gotta go, son. We were gone. So how did you end up landing in San Francisco? Like, what did you what year did you go out there and and what did you go out there for?

Okay. I I was working up in the farm country in Northern California. Okay. And, we were caretakers, You know? We we lived out in my horse trailer, me and my wife, and we were raising a garden trying to.

We had goats, and I was working for pig ranchers and digging fence post holes all day and moving field pipe. And so, you know, I'd worked in a print shop. I'd always been an artist. Somebody said, hey. Can you do a sign?

Oh, yeah. You know? And my sign, I did on, two old doors, for $20, and I think it costed me $18 to do them or something, buy buy the paint and everything. Okay. But, well, you know, we just had to move, Trouble with the neighbors, trouble with our lifestyle, we weren't making any money.

There was no food. We're 22 miles out of dirt road. You know? Uh-huh. And, so we said, oh, hell.

We we just landed in San Francisco at three in the morning on a Greyhound bus with a backpack. And, thing I I I did was, pulled some paint out of a dumpster and painted a sign for this mystery bookstore or something. So Awesome. So when was that? What year was that?

Winter of nineteen seventy eight. Okay. I I have ostensibly came down to check out this, like, spiritual teacher. Uh-huh. And and that actually became the the reason, but I I think we just needed to get out of where we were for a number of, reasons our audience doesn't need to know about.

I sense contraband was in the mix. In some way or another. Okay, so and then how did you, like, so for anyone listening, I call it a compound. I don't know how else to describe it, but you've got this set up, which amazes me that in San Francisco, that you've been able to maintain this for so long, but you've got a bunch of shipping containers that you've kinda turned into this little complex where you work and live and all that. Well, you know, it's just I'm very, very lucky.

San Francisco, extremely difficult town to to make it in. Mhmm. I've been there for twenty five years. I painted a sign for my now landlord, and I noticed he had a big empty lot behind his warehouse, you know, that was all fenced in. And after I painted the sign, I said, you know, have you ever considered renting out a where I could, like, put a trailer back there and run my paint some signs?

And he goes, Well, let me think about it. So about a week later, he goes, say, yeah. You wanna do that and but you can't live there. I said, oh, no. No.

No. No. So immediately, I started living there. I'd sneak out every morning. And years later, he forgot he ever even said that because I've been there forever.

So, but, I got, a couple semi trailers and some other everything's on wheels, which allows me to be in in a legal loophole, being a sole proprietor of a business, being needed to be security guard for my own business. You they don't nobody can really live in a trailer in the city. There's no more there's only one trailer court, and it's for, like, football fans who come in in the big RVs, and it's a couple $100 a night. You know? You're like the original tiny house guy.

Because it's on wheels, they can't mess with you. Actually, yeah. That that paid off when I told you the the the various agencies started looking at me. They kept thinking this whole thing's illegal. They said I said, no.

It's not. I didn't really I knew it wasn't, but, He didn't know where. Finally, the the building department guy, they they they kept siccing other people on me, and he came over as this old Irish guy, and he goes, oh, ho, ho, ho, ho, you mean everything's on wheels? I go, yeah. They're all registered.

He goes, oh, I don't care about that. Everything's on wheels. Well, what am I doing here? I don't know. Yeah.

Now, your your space, that area, that was only, I don't know, what was like, like three or four blocks from where my studio was? Yeah. Yeah, so that was a nice thing for me. I, when I was, interviewing Josh Luke, who was part of the New Bohemia guys, that was a nice thing for me because I was still kind of self contained. I didn't really know how other sign painters might interact, so I was kind of, like, hanging my head, you know.

Oh, god. I wish I'd have found you years before. We were right down the street. I never I think I saw your name on a sign somewhere, and I said, who's Star? Somebody you know?

So anyway, yeah. We were we were just blocks away. Yeah. And then, you know, and then when we started talking, I thought we really hit it off. And, I remember the one time I still remember this because I thought it was so cool.

I I was over at your place and, some friend of yours comes in in this old beat up Mercedes that they were running on, on, like the the french fry grease from McDonald's or something. So, like, the whole area smelled like french fries. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, that's pretty cool.

Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I couldn't be in the city without that place.

Yeah. I would have been gone years ago. It's continuing to be a challenge. I mean, everything's expensive, and my work's fine. I didn't keep up with the computer from the beginning.

I I thought I would totally blow it off, which is now, of course, impossible. So I got a pretty cool website, but I have I have to get a search engine optimizer to help me out. There you go. It doesn't come up, but, You're right there in Silicon Valley. I'm sure you can find somebody.

Oh, sure. Yeah. It'll work out. Maybe one of our listeners will wanna do you solid and hook you up. There we go.

You know? I'm I'll do you right. There you go. But, you know, I I get business word-of-mouth. I still put out my cards everywhere and talk to everybody.

And if I'm busy, then I'm not thinking about you know, I'm I had a really good summer. Last summer, we were rolling. Good deal. Lot of work. Yeah.

Yeah. See, when I was in that space, that's when we shared the wall with the show Mythbusters, and they were always blowing stuff up, and that was a little unsettling. But the reason that we decided to go ahead and and make the move was twofold. One, the, where we were living, the the guy that owned the house for like twenty, thirty years, he died. He was over in the East Bay.

Mhmm. And it it all got tangled up with the city and everything. So that was part of it because we knew we had to change our living situation. And then, the other part of it was one of our biggest customers at the time, he's the one who helped us find that space and he was an interior designer and they were making furniture and doing all sorts of stuff. And, they, I think the city wanted that area, you know, to start developing and so they kept sending in fire department and all these inspectors to everybody down there.

And, so they sent in this one inspector from the fire department and he tells the customer of mine, he says you gotta have this certain type of dust collection system. He's like well I've got this dust collection system. He's like no no no, you gotta have this one. So he goes out and he spends like $25 and gets all this stuff installed. Guy comes back out like a month later and starts writing tickets and he's like, what's up?

And he's like, well, you installed that system, but you need to also have x y z. So they they were obviously forcing him out, so he got up and moved to Houston. Right, right. Yeah, yeah. And so we were looking at that, and looking at having to figure out our living situation, and we were just like, you know, my my wife's family at the time was in Southern California, up in Big Bear in the mountains, and we're like, well, let's just go down there.

That's what we did. Sure. Yeah. But yeah, it's a tough, tough city to make it in, man. I mean, you know, so many people I knew didn't have their own place, you know.

You'd have multiple couples or people just, you know, going in together on the cheapest apartment type place they could find. You have like eight people living in there, and it's tough. Yeah, yeah. Well, you can make some money there, that's the thing, but, it looks like you're going great guns out there. Yeah, this has been a good move for us, you know.

There's, there's been a lot of work here, and people seem to dig the old time beat up style that I do, which worked out okay. Yeah, yeah. But, you know, now, like I told you, you know, we're just trying to live at a pace that's sane, where you can actually sit down and read a book and Oh, god. Think about more important things and pursue things that, have more spiritual depth than just making money. Well, you know, I I don't know if when I, I did I have a little place out in Nevada when I knew you?

You did, and and at the time, we were really connecting because you had goats. Right. And, I had goats in the past, and that's something I still have fond memories of. It's funny because I've kind of got this the the guy who sponsors this show, the Full City Rooster guy, Yeah. He's a goat fanatic too, so it's like I've got this weird pocket of goat people Yeah.

That I connect with around Some painters with links to boxcars, goats, trailers. Yes. Very strange. But, yeah, you had that property. Do you still have that?

Yeah. And I got like seven trailers out there now. I'm making a covered wagon train, you know, like a circle, and, I've been getting some good work out there. Okay. I did the last summer, the summer before, I did the, Mispel, which was a famous hotel from 1900, and, Jack Dempsey was the bouncer, and Wyatt Earp was the bartender.

And, I I had stalked these clients because I really wanted to paint their three story wall with, you know, it was it was a bill, the sign went back to God knows when. Okay. Maybe been repainted in the sixties. And, so I got that job. I did the whole thing myself.

I set up the whole swing stage and went up and down the wall like the spider, you know, and, so I had a lot of fun with that. When was that? When did you do that? I think the summer before last. Oh, that's recent then.

Yeah. Okay. And, so I get a few things out there, and Somebody calling you, Yeah, somebody calling me about a wall job, but I'll talk to him later. Money can wait, this is fun. That's right, that's right.

So I did the the Central Nevada Museum, and now I got something going. A real rich guy's putting together the antique Bullfrog railroad line that was out there back in the in the days rebuilding the whole roundhouse, and he bought the very 100 year old box car. So I'm gonna be repainting them with the logos on them, and I did the steam engine and, yeah. I get get some fun stuff out there. You know?

Hey. Good deal. Good deal. Yeah. We're in this old train station here.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I meant to ask you. Yeah. And that's really cool.

We got similar setup. The train museum's next door to us. Oh, I love trains. Yeah. And they they've got their the somebody from the train world is out there working on some of the rails right now, but they Trains coming in and out of here, you know, every day, multiple trains, so You ever get a chance to paint trains?

I did. I got to work on the for the Western Pacific Train Museum. Oh. That Red River Rail. I did a they restored a locomotive and I got to do all the numbers plates and the logo plates and all that, and then, I don't know if you can you probably can't see because of the glare, but It's kind of a glare.

Yeah. Right behind me, there's, they've got five or six, antique cars out there, and they're gonna redo the caboose this year, and, they want us to repaint the the logos and numbers on that. Sure. I saw you know, I I did a train car out here for up up in Sebastopol for these rich winery owners, and Uh-huh. It was a Pullman car.

Okay. And they use it for weddings and stuff. But the interior, original interior, beautifully hand painted. The the curved ceiling, you know, is Uh-huh. Covered with, floral stuff in gold and beautiful.

Yeah. Those were works of art. Oh, man. Yeah. Beautiful.

That's what I you know, we all live to do those kind of jobs. Yeah, that, that guy Tom, out in Ireland, I don't know if you've heard that episode yet, but I was talking to him because he grew up, his parents, and grandparents, and I think their grandparents, operated pub in Cork, Ireland. And so he grew up around that, so a big part of his business is he does a lot of pubs, and I'm like just drooling, like oh my gosh, that's that would be such a great, you know, thing to pull through. You're Irish, right? Yeah, I'm I'm I'm half Scotch Irish and I'm half Ukrainian, so, like, I'm I'm doomed as far as, you know, alcohol goes.

But yeah, it's a weird mix, but, yeah, that's it. Yeah, well maybe you can get out there and work on some pubs or something. Oh, that'd be awesome. I've never been overseas. Have you been overseas?

I've never been anywhere. I went to Tijuana or, Ensenada, man. Yeah, same here. I've been bor like border towns Mexico and border towns Canada, and that's it. Yeah, well, I I read books, though, so that helps.

You write books. That's true. Author. Yeah. I don't know.

Are you looking on any new novels? Or You know, I I was asked that recently by a friend of mine as well, and it it's just so time consuming. Yes, it is, ma'am. And and and it's focus consuming, and I don't know if I have either enough to do it again. Yeah.

You know, it's funny. I I haven't been, I I aspire to write a novel, and I I did some poetry, which is not coming out of me these days. So Yeah. I've got your book of poetry I've enjoyed reading. Thank you.

Yeah. That many people probably know that you have that in your past. You'd be surprised. I, more than more than two people I've talked to know about your book, right? Oh, really?

Oh, I heard about that, or I read that. It was great. Did they look depressed? Because I think it had that effect. Hanging on by a thread.

No, it was a very cathartic thing to do, because I wrote about real life experiences that I'd gone through, but I kind of, I kind of feel like I don't think I could do that again. Uh-huh. And I don't even know if I'd have the drive to. I mean, I kind of, in a weird way, feel like this is an extension of that. You know?

Because it's, it gives me a little bit of a forum to shoot my mouth off and get my opinion there. Yeah, I'm still sorry for the people listening to us, we're talking about everything except signs, but You know, but that's, specifically when I started this podcast thing, that's the thing I really wanted, you know, I mean, in the process, we end up talking about signs and business a little bit, but, you know, I think it's much more compelling to get to, like, what makes sign painters tick, You know, and where they're coming from, you know, intellectually, psychologically, you know, like what drives them as a creative person as opposed to just, you know, I think it would be very boring if you and I were just sitting here talking about, you know, like the latest change to one shot's formula or whatever. Yeah, yeah. Which, now that that's come up, you're in California, are you seeing a difference with that? We're hating it.

Is it really? Well, the black is, is sometime you open up a can, it's like jelly, and then recently my friend had an experience, now get this, one shot, you write cover everything, he put he he he went up on a wall that had just been painted with semi gloss acrylic. Okay. And he painted the letters black with one shot right out of the can, and they all rolled back like it was on silicone or something. I couldn't believe it.

They Wow. You had to redo the whole thing. I mean, I go, what? How can this be? And this is the new, like, California formula that they started?

Oh, I guess it is. Wow. I guess it is. I I talked to the guy who took over One Shot, Matthews Paint, the president. When they did that, you know, I I kinda said, hey, you know, is there some real person?

I I'm I'm I'm a CEO, I said. I I I talked to you know? So amazingly, I actually talked to the guy himself, and, I don't know, man. I I I almost wondered if they were, it was gonna be their their loss leader for their taxes or something to just ruin one shot. I I just it I I mean, we still use it.

You won't use it for lettering, but I've taken to using acrylic on walls with the exception of the letters. There's just no comparison. Acrylic's much easier to work with, of course, clean up I'm in the same boat. I'm using exterior house paint acrylics, and, you know, especially like down here, we have extreme sun exposure and heat exposure, and it holds up so much better. Now, I still have a huge selection of one shot that I use on other stuff, but, you know, I haven't come across the, new formula stuff yet, but I'm I'm kind of nervously awaiting hearing, like like what you're saying, that scares the crap out of me.

And then the other new thing is, some of the colors, like white, maroon, gold, and and I think it's moving on into their other color line, no longer reduces with lacquer thinner. I couldn't I couldn't believe it. You know? Because I I use paint thinner, of course, to clean them up at initially, but I used to use lacquer thinner because they cake up. You just throw it in for a day or two and clean it.

And then it dries real fast too. It doesn't doesn't mix anymore. It's like, yeah. So something I don't understand the chemistry, but, but, anyway, the acrylics, you know what? You you still like to use the one shot for lettering, of course.

Yeah. Yeah. You know something? If if if I can you're talking about this guy in Ireland. Could I mention someone's name who's in the sign world?

Or Absolutely. That's what this is all about. I met her on Facebook. Okay. Sarah Harvey.

Oh, yeah. She's an upcoming interview. She's doing awesome stuff. Those old gypsy trail caravans. Did you interview her?

Yeah. I've got it set up. I talked to her the other day. Oh, excellent. So you haven't that hasn't come out yet?

No. No. We haven't done the interview yet, but she's on the she's on the list. Well, you know, I actually considering, doing a a a work study thing. I mean, I would I was even considering flying to England.

She said I could come visit. Uh-huh. I just wanna see that. I love gypsy trailers. Yeah.

No. Super cool. And she loves hundreds. I mean, the real thing, man. Her work is just, exquisite, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. No. I I follow her on Facebook and, yeah. I've I've I've been impressed with that for a while.

It's so cool. All you listeners out there, check out Sarah Harvey Paint Your Wagon. Paint Your Wagon, that's right. I'm glad you remembered that, because that's her Facebook thing. Right on.

Well, cool. I'm glad you brought her up, because, you know, I think that's, like, are you familiar with the Fila Teato guys down in South America? Bueno Ferris? Right. You know, I love those little pockets of, you know, sign painting that they're like doing their own complete awesome off the hook stuff, like the the gypsy caravans, the filletiato guys, you know, that that's just so cool.

And, John Lennig, did you ever meet John when he came to visit in San Francisco when he was in our studio? I don't remember him. John Lennig. Yeah. He was in the movie, I Yeah.

He he's they he was they were talking to him in front of my truck. Kind of a bald looking guy. All I'm remembering, yeah. Yeah. He's been sign painter for fifty something years.

Sure. But, he came down to, our studio there, around the corner from you, and was trying to help me learn some things with Goldleaf that had eluded me for years. Oh, wow. And just a great guy. We, you know, Kaylee and I totally hit it off with him, and that's what led to, inviting him down to our studio on Big Bear when they were coming to film.

Mhmm. I invited a handful of guys, Derek McDonald came down. I know him, he's a good guy, him and, Tina, yeah. Yeah, and so we we got a small group of guys together and did a little mini letterhead meet for when they were shooting. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, so, but, yeah, he's the one who turned me on to the Filletiato guys, and, he had gone down to Buenos Aires and worked with some of these guys, you know. He took like a really long vacation, I think, and just kind of worked alongside him. He was telling me that like, they're so poor and things are so hard to get down there, that a lot of them were like making their own brushes, Oh. And, they were making their own pounce patterns by, taking a thumbtack and poking holes in a piece of paper, and Uh-huh. Like really old school, but just amazing stuff.

Oh, yeah. It's just beautiful. You know, I I looked at, some of the sign painter things, like, I thought to myself I mean, it's all nice. We all do nice stuff. But, those guys from South America, the Filittiata, what you're talking about, every time I see one of their things, I go, oh, no.

This I truly admire. This is No. It's off the hook. I like to do, you know. Yeah, well, the one guy, I think his name's Geneviz.

That sounds familiar. Yeah, there's a couple of guys that are kind of iconic with all that, but for our listeners, yeah, look it up. Filletado, f I l e t a d o. Beautiful, incredible baroque floral. Yeah.

And and that three-dimensional shading, and it's just gorgeous. Yes, it is. Yeah. Yeah. I I I invented the pounce pattern myself too before I knew there was such a thing.

I used a razor blade and cut little slits. Uh-huh. I didn't know about the powder though. I used to go through it with a pencil and mark it on the wall, you know, whatever. Yeah.

I was talking to this guy. He was, used to be up in New York, and there's, this one thing on the building that they would repaint every so many years, and he was telling me that they would, duct tape visqueen plastic over it, and they would do what you're saying, they would cut slats in it, you know, with a razor, and then they would pull it off, they would paint the wall white again, and then when they put it back up, they'd go up with like a Sharpie or whatever, and they'd mark those slats, and they that way the the graphic was always the the same each year, or each time they redid it. Oh right, right. Yeah, I thought that was pretty fascinating. I think, they do a similar thing when they do the really big graphics on football fields too.

I think Mike Meyer was the one telling me about that a while back. No? Yeah, they do do huge layouts on the plastic, and then they drop it down on the the grass, and then, I think with spray paint or whatever, they go ahead and mark where the ticks are. Excellent. Yeah, yeah.

You know I did, I got to do a couple of basketball courts recently. Not for the actual competition where the teams work, but for the warriors and the, Sacramento Kings. They they sponsored some stuff in in real rough neighborhoods Okay. Giving professional courts for the kids. So I had some fun, working with the people that lay out those basketball courts too, and we did the, you know, logos in there.

What kind of paint would you use on a floor like that? They I wanted to use one shot, but they specified their own acrylic, which was mixed with some kind of grit. So okay. It slowed me down quite a bit. Took two or three, four coats, you know.

Cursing the whole way? Oh, yeah. Working my kneepads and, but it was a lot of fun. They let us go up, show up, and live in the trailer while we were working and stuff. I know.

There's those trailers again. Yeah. Yeah. You know, Norma Jean down there in Texas, she called me up one day and goes, Bob, you wanna do a job in Texas? I go, yeah.

And, it didn't ever did happen, but it was for this trailer court where they rent out all the trailers like hotel rooms. We were gonna paint each trailer up like, East Indian, you know. Okay. Paisley's or whatever. Get up your alley.

That would have been a lot of fun. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She's gonna gonna be on the show too.

Did did you know her when she was in San Francisco? Norma Jean and I are dear friends. Okay. Cool. Yeah.

Yeah. We partied and worked together and, Okay. Good deal. And and main renewed our friendship fifteen years later on a clean and sober basis, and she's, very happy and doing some wonderful stuff. Yeah, I'm looking forward to interviewing her.

We've talked a little bit, you know, through emails, social media, and that kind of stuff. I think we've talked once or twice on the phone. How close is Denison to Austin? It's a ways. It's it's probably close to the distance, between San Francisco and LA.

Uh-huh. I think it's probably six seven hours from here. I think LA to San Francisco is about eight, right? It depends how fast you drive. Well, that's true.

But, yeah, so, I'm also gonna be talking to Gary Martin. Good. He's down in Austin. He's he's one of my sign hero guys. Oh, yeah.

He's incredible. Yeah. So what's new on the horizon for you? What you got coming up that that you are doing or wanna do, or where are you going from here? You know, like I say, I mean, sometimes I strangely enough, my girlfriend and me went to the beach the other night, at night, just to watch the waves.

And I was sitting behind the windshield, of course, watching the waves. And I I didn't expect it. Out of nowhere, this feeling came, like, God, I wish I lived in a car again. You know? Probably not that many people come to that, realization.

What are you talking about? Well, getting to you know, I mean, I could almost feel it, like, because I used to live in my car when I and I it was so easy, you know? Yeah. Just crawl in the back, you know, I had a whole mattress in the back with my dog, and Did you do that in the city, in San Francisco? Well, yeah, for yeah.

I've lived in many cars, and How did you get away with it? I I I read this book about this college student, that lived in his van, and it was pretty fascinating because he goes into detail of like how he made it work, you know. I think he did it for a couple of years so he could pay his schooling off. Like how how did what's the what's the realities of that? Well, I mean it's if forget it nowadays, but, when I came to San Francisco, I mean, I've lived I've lived in cars many times in my life.

I love it. I I I could turn almost any car into a nice little room in a few hours. You know, you cut the throw out the back seat, cut away the metal that holds it up, and put a full mattress going into the trunk, and put a curtain across the the front seat, you know. And, well, I, a lot of people, I don't know if it was jealousy or that there were many problem people, addiction, and and people who make a mess. Uh-huh.

But it's it's a big illegal thing. When I came to San Francisco, you know, sometime a police officer knocked on the door, say, hey. You know, somebody complained. They you're not really supposed to be doing this. Why don't you go down to the beach?

So down at the beach, there are people living there for months at a time and, with clothes lines between their vans and watching television together. And, beautiful, hippie van. It it was an old metro and, with insulated walls and a steel door that closed that little wood stove in there and a separate battery system, television, and, you know, they're wonderful. I I never bothered anybody, you know, and I could listen to the waves all night. And I get up before dawn and walk down the beach, and, I I I missed it suddenly.

And and along with that, more more like what we're talking about, I I kinda just I I I would almost, you know, feel a reminiscence. I want to, I want to go back. I wish I could just walk down the street and be painting little window signs and Yeah. I don't know if you give me a $100, I'll do something nice, you know, and Yeah. It's just, I'm wasting more and more time emailing and all these regulations and people, so specific about what they need, but, forget all that.

I'm happy. I'm I'm hoping this vintage postcard thing comes through at the shopping mall. That would be a lot of fun. I'm I'm gradually working toward, wanting to use sign painting techniques to branch off into my own decorative art thing, whether, whether making signs that that create their own market, like signs that people would wanna buy, I think probably a terrible idea because the art shows, like, that we were in, I sure didn't make any money on any of them. Well, the galleries definitely take a cut.

Yeah. And, once again, people admire it, but who wants to pay for that, what it would really take? I mean, the work that we'd love to do. Yeah. But I'm doing a few art things.

I'm doing a series of, ace of spades. You know? It's gonna be I'm gonna get five of them done, call it the cheater's hand, like, you know, all ace of spades from different decks, because the ace of spades is usually the most elaborate card in the deck. And some of them are really beautiful, like I did the one from bee cards with the beehive. And, some of them have, like, the Virgin Mary or the different different images I'm working with, and creating them in three d and and painting them real beautiful and Are you doing that on on, like, MDO plywood or how to make it?

Yeah. DL with one shot, you know, the whole so that, I I'm, wall jobs is mostly what I'm loving to do, but, I haven't really sign painting's been bread and butter for me, and I do love it. And it's just I've never gone as far as I could have as far as I didn't, become much of a logo designer. I I it's just more practical for me. Like, please tell me what you want.

That way, you can't complain about it. Uh-huh. I know you're gonna pay for it. You know, I I offer suggestions, but, I pretty much just need the money. You know?

I if a job comes along, I I do a lot of work that's not particularly interesting. Uh-huh. I like climbing around on the equipment and Yeah. I remember when we met, you pointed out all these different buildings in the nearby neighborhoods. You were like, I painted that.

I painted that. I painted that. It's kind of cool because you're obviously proud of it. Oh, yeah. I love it, you know.

I I noticed, on a recent post, you did that, what's that, like, Slovenia Hall or something? That's right. Is that the one just up the hill from Whole Foods right there? Yes. I I stood turn around in their parking lot whenever I go to Whole Foods.

Sure. Sure. Yeah. They've been there forever. Yeah.

So I I do in anything that comes along, and, you know, we're pretty much, the computer does windows, magnetics, trucks. I mean, once in a while, I I did a long run of, fleets of Irish movers. Mhmm. That was a lot of fun doing their great big trucks with the the big handles that twist on the pole for the doors and going all around that. And, you know, show cards are pretty much of a thing for a art show now, but people are doing them.

We got some this one lady in San Francisco here, young and and really good. She's doing a whole funny thing. If you get a chance to check it out, Annika Leidenberg Okay. She she did, a bunch of Showcard shows, and they're going over really good, like, funny stuff, you know, like pickup lines, like, my love for sale. You know?

Your clothes, 100% off. Okay. Yeah. You know, on and on and on. So, yeah, we you know, a lot of a lot of young people around here are learning the trade and doing some really nice work and excited about it and loving letters and, and stuff.

Yeah. Really seeing a resurgence, so it's kind of a a neat thing to see something that I think a lot of us thought we were the last of the Mohicans. Sure. Yeah. Well, you know, that's true.

I I I keep thinking, to take the time. I wanna photograph just, some of the stuff around town. It's almost I'm I'm seeing now everything's computer done, and it's it's starting to look so alike that you see some of these signs people are just painting, and they're very, very poor by sign painting standards. But as a sign, they're coming across great, almost freehand stuff, but with outlines and pictures. And, you're driving down the street, and it really gets your attention.

You know, if you follow the basics with, sticking to the point, signages so you can recognize the the main and subliminal messages. And, they're they're they're actually, I I think, better than what I'm seeing most of around, because the eye the public eye is always looking for something new. You know? I mean, we're about advertising. We're trying to make money for people that are have businesses, and, I'm feeling like, what I'm seeing around some of these and I know they're not expensive signs.

They're almost just knock them out on the spot. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Well, it'll be interesting to see where it goes from here.

Yes. It will. Well, I really wanna thank you for doing this because, you you when I conceptualized putting this together, you were one of the people. I'm like, I gotta talk to Bob. Oh, man.

It's good to see you and, talk to you. I I wish we I I could talk. We could talk for days, you know? Yeah. If I ever get out to Texas, I'll definitely stop in on you.

Absolutely. Mhmm. Take you out for some barbecue. Although, I think you're probably vegetarian, right? Yeah.

Yeah. So I'll get you some barbecued vegetables. How's that? That sounds great. Alright.

Well, thanks. And Hey, Sean. Thanks so much, man. And everybody that's listening, I'm sorry we didn't get to talk to, about signs, but that's alright. What are you talking about?

It's all we talked about. Well, thanks again to Bob for spending some time and, talking. I always get a kick out of talking to him and probably talk to him for four hours. Also wanted to thank all of you that are I've been getting a lot of emails and messages through our Instagram and Facebook. People enjoying the show.

Really kind of overwhelmed by the support. I really didn't think that there is going to be, as much enthusiasm for this as there seems to be, but it's it's awesome and I I really appreciate it. And, I'd like to invite anybody that, is listening that enjoys it. If, if you enjoy the show to take a and review it on iTunes. I've been told that, iTunes reviews are very important thing for staying visible in iTunes, so if you like the show do us a solid and and, give us some comments there, and, we will see you next week.

Thanks a lot. Today's episode of Coffee with a Signpainter is brought to you by Full City Rooster Coffee Roasters in Dallas, Texas, roasting distinctive coffees from around the world. Sean drinks Full City Rooster Coffee every day in the studio. You can order their coffee online at fullcityrooster.com. Thanks for listening to Coffee with a SignPainter, hosted by Sean Starr.

You can find all sorts of info about the show and sign painting, including previous episodes at our our website, seanstar.com.